Evidence of meeting #73 for Science and Research in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was systems.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:55 p.m.
Assistant Professor, Carleton University, As an Individual
Yes, I think there are probably quite a few. Not having a deep knowledge of the various departments within the Canadian ministries, it's difficult for me to pinpoint any precise examples.
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
Helena Jaczek Liberal Markham—Stouffville, ON
I appreciate that.
In terms of granting research dollars, obviously the federal government is involved in that. Are you at all familiar with CIHR and NSERC, etc.? Are you thinking along any lines that might provide for opportunities for more indigenous-led research through those federal granting agencies?
1 p.m.
Assistant Professor, Carleton University, As an Individual
I have the privilege of being a co-principal investigator with a project called the Arramat project, which you heard about in previous testimony from Dr. Brenda Parlee, who was one of my co-principal investigators in that project. The project is funded through the new frontiers and research transformations grant. It is a global, multi-year, multi-million-dollar project that looks at indigenous health and well-being in the context of biodiversity and conservation.
I think that funding projects such as this, which are indeed indigenous-led and place-based, is one of the best ways to start to elevate the knowledge systems of indigenous peoples, not only in Canada but globally.
I think the fact that Canada is funding these types of projects, and hopefully continues to do so, will in fact influence not just Canadian policy but also global and international policy through institutions like the United Nations and others that are looking at how to understand the place of indigenous systems vis-à-vis other systems of knowledge and science on various environmental issues.
1 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lloyd Longfield
Thank you very much.
We go now to Mr. Blanchette-Joncas for a minute.
1 p.m.
Bloc
Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Littlechild, you said in your opening remarks that indigenous knowledge should be defined by indigenous people themselves, by the knowledge holders or knowledge keepers.
You said the two knowledge systems were completely different. Does that mean that western knowledge, evidenced-based information and such, should not encroach on or interfere with indigenous knowledge?
1 p.m.
Assistant Professor, Carleton University, As an Individual
I think there has been really wonderful evidence presented about ways to find commonalities between knowledge systems, so I won't speak to that.
I will speak to a point that I was trying to get to earlier in your line of questioning. I could maybe use the example of the Alberta indigenous wisdom advisory panel, which advises the chief scientist in the Government of Alberta. One challenge is that the chief scientist will of course have their own bias and limitations in how they understand the advice provided by the indigenous wisdom advisory panel, and then that advice and contribution becomes constrained and limited by the limited understanding and cultural values held by the chief scientist or government representatives.
1 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lloyd Longfield
Thank you very much.
Mr. Cannings, go ahead for the final minute, please.
1 p.m.
NDP
Richard Cannings NDP South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC
Thank you.
I'm going to go back to Professor Littlechild and talk about species at risk.
When I've worked with indigenous peoples on species at risk issues, they point out pretty much immediately that the Species at Risk Act is largely applicable only on federal lands. In Canada, that means right away the Indian reserves and everything north of 60, where we have substantial indigenous populations, who then point out that they have indigenous knowledge that they would like to use.
You used the word “autonomy”. Could you talk briefly about that clash of systems?
1 p.m.
Assistant Professor, Carleton University, As an Individual
Sure.
I think one challenge has always been how to understand system clash. Many indigenous scholars who are far more established and knowledgeable than I am, such as Leroy Little Bear, have talked extensively about this in their publications and in their work.
From my perspective, part of the challenge is that it's only been somewhat recently that we've seen space being made for indigenous systems. For many years, indigenous systems were seen—
1 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lloyd Longfield
Thank you.
I think we'll cut it there. We did trap part of your thought. Unfortunately, we are over time. That's what we have been fighting all through this whole study. If there is more you can provide in a written response, it would be good to get things like the study you just mentioned over to us for the clerk and the analysts.
Thank you, Danika Littlechild, Tammy Steinwand-Deschambeault and Heather Sayine-Crawford, for your testimony and for your contribution today. Thank you for your patience with the technology. I'm really glad you were able to interact with us.
For now, we're going to take a pause. You're free to leave. We're going to go into committee business now, so you can sign off Zoom, and then we will go right into committee business.
We've scheduled until 1:30 for committee business, so we've extended our time briefly today to talk about the travel budget. We have until 1:30. The proposal includes provisions for 12 travellers—including seven MPs, a clerk, two analysts and two interpreters—to visit the Canadian Nuclear Laboratories in Chalk River, SNOLAB in Sudbury, the Canadian Light Source in Saskatoon, the Dominion Radio Astrophysical Observatory in Kaleden, B.C. and TRIUMF in Vancouver, B.C.
Travel would take place May 13 to May 17. I remind you that the submission has to be sent to the Liaison Committee's subcommittee on budgets by this Friday, February 16.
Do we have any comments on the budget we have before us?
Go ahead, Mr. Cannings.
1:05 p.m.
NDP
Richard Cannings NDP South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC
Kaleden, Penticton and Kelowna are mentioned here as if they are three separate destinations. They're all the same place, basically. We would travel to Kelowna, probably stay in Penticton, and see the centre in Kaleden. It's not like we're going all over the map.
1:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lloyd Longfield
Thank you for giving us the regional knowledge. I know one out of three of those centres.
Go ahead, Dr. Jaczek.
1:05 p.m.
Liberal
Helena Jaczek Liberal Markham—Stouffville, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Being relatively new to this committee, I just wondered how this list of interesting places came about.
1:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lloyd Longfield
The original travel was a motion in the committee back in Kirsty Duncan's time. We just duplicated what was approved by the committee at that time to see whether the current committee would approve this travel.
Go ahead, Ms. Bradford.
1:05 p.m.
Liberal
Valerie Bradford Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON
I'm happy to speak to that, because it was my original motion. I think Lena and I are the only ones on the government side who have been here from the beginning.
This came about after, I think, probably our very initial study, which was on big science. That was pretty much the initial study at this committee. We had witnesses from many of these very interesting facilities, which, because of their size and uniqueness, I have a feeling you really need to see to believe. That's why we suggested this. We keep putting it forward in hope.
1:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lloyd Longfield
Thank you.
Are there any other comments around the table?
Go ahead, Monsieur Blanchette-Joncas.
1:05 p.m.
Bloc
Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
I just want to point out, Mr. Chair, that the trip does not include any destinations in Quebec. I hope that, going forward, proposals will include destinations in Quebec. We, too, have a significant presence in the science community and incredible infrastructure.
I want to understand something. We are back to the original motion from two years ago. Can we amend the motion, or do we have to adopt it as is? What's the procedure?
1:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lloyd Longfield
Unfortunately, because of the deadline, we've had to draft a budget. The clerk drafted a budget based on these locations, so that's what we have before us.
You're right that there's a lot of great science in Quebec, for sure, but we'd have to redo the budget, which we don't have time to do at this point. It's kind of all or nothing.
Should we vote on the budget, then? Can I call on the clerk to help us? Should we do it on division?
(Motion agreed to)
It's unanimous. That's fantastic. I love it when a plan comes together. Thank you, committee. Thank you to the clerk for doing that.
Go ahead, Mr. Tochor.
1:05 p.m.
Conservative
Corey Tochor Conservative Saskatoon—University, SK
I have a motion. I move that the committee invite the Minister of Industry, along with department officials, to appear for two hours to explain why Huawei is absent from Science and Economic Development Canada's list of named research organizations that are identified as posing a high risk to Canada's national security, and that the committee report this back to the House.
That is the motion I'd like us to vote on. It would be a quick, one-committee meeting to explore why and how they can defend not having Huawei on that list that excludes entities from China operating in Canada. I make that motion and I hope we have a vote on it today. We have committee business for the next 20 minutes.
1:10 p.m.
Liberal
1:10 p.m.
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
Because we haven't had a chance to see it and Mr. Tochor read it fairly quickly, could we have that sent in both official languages to our email so that we can actually read it? I'm someone who needs to—
1:10 p.m.
Conservative
Corey Tochor Conservative Saskatoon—University, SK
I'll do you one better: I'll distribute a copy in both French and English.
This is a study that we've been wanting to do for a while and that we've discussed already. I'd like to vote on it today.
1:10 p.m.
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
I don't remember ever discussing this, Mr. Tochor, but that's fine.
Maybe you can float those around. I would appreciate a copy by email so that I can actually look at it. If we want to potentially propose an amendment, that should be available, right?
1:10 p.m.
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
Maybe we can pause, wait until we get that, and then return to the discussion, if that's fair. I think in most committees that's been the standard.