Science and Research Committee on April 27th, 2026

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls—Niagara-on-the-Lake, ON]

I'm still going.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

We are now on the motion, so—

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls—Niagara-on-the-Lake, ON]

I'm getting to that.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

I'm failing to understand how this is relevant to the motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

This is not a point of order.

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls—Niagara-on-the-Lake, ON]

I'll get to that, Madam Chair, because I'm getting—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Please keep it relevant to the motion. We are debating the motion proposed by MP Noormohamed.

MP Baldinelli has the floor.

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls—Niagara-on-the-Lake, ON]

I'm getting back to that. He mentioned that he raised his motion because of what we are studying here. I'd like to propose some changes to that. I think we could have a great study with regard to what my colleague is proposing. I don't think we have to limit it to what's going on in Quebec and British Columbia. I'd like to see what's going on in Ontario.

If you remember, the Independent Electricity System Operator wrote a report in December 2023 about getting Ontario to a fully green grid by 2050. That's going to cost $400 billion, ladies and gentlemen. We're going to need six times the 14,000 workers that currently exist. It's going to take us from 44,000 megawatts to 82,000 megawatts. Is that something we need to consider? Do we have the infrastructure in place? Do we have the electrical generating capacity to even get there? Do you know what? Let's study that. Let's look at that.

Let's look at the examples that we can have, but at the same time, let's recognize that we have current auto production taking place that we want to nurture. The RAV4 is the largest-selling hybrid, and not only in Canada but within North America, I think. Do you know what? That is produced here. Let's nurture that.

If you look at the EV strategy, you see that the rebate doesn't even go fully to the hybrids. It only goes to EVs. Why are we precluding hybrid electric vehicles? Why are we doing that? Ultimately, it should be the consumer deciding the vehicle they want, not the federal government.

Ladies and gentlemen, I'd like to see that we move forward with my colleague's motion, and I'd like to ask that we remove the word “positive” from “examples” and that we open it up to lessons learned “throughout this country”. We will accept that on the condition that it doesn't preclude our schedule that is currently examined.... We will table this, and when we have an opportunity to do so, we'll do so.

However, I think what we've done this afternoon is just totally disrespectful, and not only to the witnesses. They have an excellent story to tell. They have an EV product that they want to grow in North America. What we've done is that we've not provided them with the opportunity to tell their story and to tell this committee the threats that are being put in place by the current agreement that this government has to allow Chinese EVs.

They're not going to establish manufacturing capacity in this country. These knock-down kits are hundreds of jobs. They're not a supply chain. We're not going to get the value added on the technology. When BYD was in Brazil, it got shut down. The construction got shut down for human rights violations. It got shut down in Hungary for human rights violations. Are these the people you want to be doing business with?

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting, Mr. Baldinelli, but could you keep the remarks related to the motion, please?

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls—Niagara-on-the-Lake, ON]

Again, I'm just going to come down with my comments on this. I would like to make an amendment to the motion that's before us to say this:

That the committee conduct a study of no less than three meetings on examples of EV infrastructure implementation with specific references to lessons learned throughout the country.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

We have an amendment on the floor.

Is there any debate on the amendment?

MP Noormohamed, go ahead.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

I think it's a good amendment. I would certainly be pleased to support it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Is everyone supportive of the amendment? I think we have unanimous consent for this amendment.

(Amendment agreed to)

Now we have the motion as amended.

I have MP Sudds on the list and MP Blanchette-Joncas.

MP Sudds, we are on the motion as amended.

[Jenna Sudds, Liberal, Kanata, ON]

I'm fine to go to a vote.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Next is MP Blanchette-Joncas.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

We have seen quite a circus this afternoon. Now we can see the arrogant attitude of this new government that has gained its majority by making deals with floorcrossers.

Madam Chair, permit me to go back to the motion. I find it interesting, of course. However, I also find the government's language to be really inconsistent. On the one hand, they say that they want a study on the energy transition. That is important and involves trying to reduce the number of gas-fuelled vehicles on our roads. On the other hand, those gas-fuelled vehicles are being funded by public money. It's being done through subsidies that use public money for pipeline projects. Let's remind people about the Trans Mountain project, which cost $34 billion.

My colleague Mr. Deschênes-Thériault was patting himself on the back just now about an investment of $1 billion. But Trans Mountain cost $34 billion. You don't need a PhD in mathematics or quantum physics to understand that $34 billion is a whole lot more than $1 billion. The member was reading his shopping list to us, of course, but look what the government has promised us lately.

The Minister of Energy and Natural Resources has promised us another $10 billion for a new pipeline to British Columbia. Then we are told that this is important, that we are going to do a study on the energy transition and on electric vehicles and we will see the positive effects of it all.

Madam Chair, I am in favour of this study. But, once again, the government has some explaining to do because the walk does not match the talk, so to speak. The government cannot achieve its objective in reducing greenhouse gas emissions, yet we are still investing in industries that emit most of the greenhouse gases. So I find a lot of inconsistency in what the government is saying.

I have always been struck by something for the entire time I have sat on this committee, right from when it started in 2021. Of course, the government's words and actions are inconsistent, but something else is striking and I believe it sums up the actions of the current government. Canada's Chief Science Advisor is not just anyone; she is paid from public funds to advise the government. She told us that she had never been consulted on a project of national interest in which the government is investing a lot of money. She has not been asked to give her scientific advice.

So I hope the government will listen to the advice of its Chief Science Advisor. Let us not forget that, at the time, she described the situation as a nightmare. She saw that the government was bypassing all kinds of legislation, the Criminal Code excepted, in order to promote some projects in the national interest. That concerns me. We are not short on announcements from this government, we are short of concrete measures designed to meet the targets it had already committed to meet.

Once again, we have wasted a lot of time. I am upset that we have not been able to ask questions of the witnesses who have joined us today to be part of this study on electric vehicles.

I will support this motion. Once again, I am hoping that the government will also be able to make sure that the public is on board in terms of trust. My colleagues stated this a little earlier and I am really proud to state it too: the greatest number of electric vehicles are in Quebec. This is because of political choices and political will. We did not wait for the federal government to make announcements or provide subsidies.

We are told that it is important to see the positive effects of electric vehicles and, indeed, to build new infrastructures. However, a little more than a year ago, this same government put a stop to the subsidies on electric vehicles. Why were the subsidies not good a year ago and why were they suspended? I would surely tell you that the government put a stop to them because of the political pressure it had to face when it reinstated them a year and a half later. I am really looking forward to hearing about all the impact on the supply chain, on the public's purchasing of electric vehicles, but also about the conflicting signals this sends to the public.

If the subsidy was a good one, why did the government not keep it? It reintroduced it a year and a half later. This disconnect between what the government may say in its speeches and what it does is the kind of thing that makes the public sceptical.

In the House this morning, one of the things we were debating was Bill M‑9, which the government has introduced in order to change the composition of committees. So today, this is the last meeting of the committee that reflects the true will of the public: a minority government.

Now the government is going to have a majority in the committees, albeit a small one. The government has 51% of the members of the House, but it is going to award itself the power to have 58% in the committees. That is a super-majority, as they say. It's scary. I believe that the coming weeks and months will usher in a new kind of governance. I will also say that it's scary because, once again, it does not reflect the will of the public.

I will make the same case about electric vehicles.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting.

Can you please keep your remarks relevant to the motion we are debating?

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

I will be delighted to do that.

So let me remind you that one Canadian in three trusts democratic institutions. Is there a good connection between the government's words and actions and the general public, if you will excuse the play on words? Two thirds of the population no longer trust democratic institutions. That's not something the Bloc Québécois invented; it's a survey from Statistics Canada.

So I am afraid that this kind of disconnect between words and action will result in…

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting again.

Can you please keep your remarks related to the motion we are debating? Thank you.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

Madam Chair, I understand that you do not like me saying that only one Canadian in three believes in Parliament. But it's the truth. You say that it is not part of the motion. But it certainly has to do with the link between the motion that the Liberals want to see adopted and the inconsistency that would create in terms of other kinds of government measures.

I certainly hope that I can put an end to this debate so that we can proceed to the vote. I would even like us to have a little time to do what we came here to do today. By that I mean ask the witnesses who took the time to come to join us some questions about the study.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you.

I see no other person wanting to speak, so we will go to a vote on MP Noormohamed's motion as amended by MP Baldinelli.

(Motion as amended agreed to: yeas 9; nays 0)

Is it the will of the committee to adjourn the meeting?

[Kurt Holman, Conservative, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Madam Chair, I'm sorry to interrupt.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Go ahead, MP Holman.

[Kurt Holman, Conservative, London—Fanshawe, ON]

As I'm sitting in for MP Vincent Ho, I'd like to move his motion that was put on notice on Friday, April 24.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Yes, you can move it.