Evidence of meeting #38 for Science and Research in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was quantum.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Hadwen  Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy-Industry, Department of National Defence
Kaminska  Director General, Bureau of Research, Engineering and Advanced Leadership in Innovation and Science and Defence Research and Development Canada, Department of National Defence
Green  Director, National Security Policy, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Prince  Director of Land Force Development, Canadian Armed Forces, Department of National Defence
Commito  Director, Research and Innovation, Cambrian College of Applied Arts and Technology
Perry  President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Global Affairs Institute
da Mota  Research Director, Emerging Technology and National Security, The Canadian SHIELD Institute for Public Policy
Blais  Scientific Director, Institut quantique, Université de Sherbrooke
Therrien  Associate Vice-President of Government Relations, Université de Sherbrooke

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Tony Baldinelli

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 38 of the Standing Committee on Science and Research. We're meeting today to resume our study on Canada's dual-use and defence research needs.

I would like to make a few comments for the benefit of the witnesses and the members. Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking.

Those on Zoom, at the bottom of your screen you can select the appropriate channel for interpretation: floor, English or French. I will remind you that all comments should be addressed through the chair.

I would also like to remind witnesses that committee members may ask questions in French or English. If you will need interpretation, please take a moment now to prepare your earpiece and select the listening channel you need in order to take full advantage of the time allotted for questions and answers.

I would like to welcome our first witnesses here today.

From the Department of National Defence, we have Dr. Kate Kaminska, director general, bureau of research, engineering and advanced leadership in innovation and science, Defence Research and Development Canada; Wendy Hadwen, assistant deputy minister, policy-industry; and Colonel Marc Prince, director of land force development, Canadian Armed Forces.

From the Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, we have Dr. Adam Green, director, national security policy.

We will start with the Department of National Defence.

You have the floor for five minutes.

Ms. Hadwen and Dr. Kaminska will share their time, and we will go to Dr. Green afterwards.

Wendy Hadwen Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy-Industry, Department of National Defence

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I am the assistant deputy minister for policy-industry at the Department of National Defence. We are all so grateful to have been invited to be part of your study.

I am here for two reasons. I am here because of the role we are playing, in policy, to develop and implement Canada's defence industrial strategy, and because Canada's dual-use and defence research needs are essential to the growth of our defence industrial base.

Last year, Canada invested $65 billion in defence and security. In March 2026, we reached the 2% threshold of gross domestic product, or GDP, for defence spending—a threshold set by the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, or NATO. We are now on track to meet NATO's new target of spending 3.5% of GDP on defence.

To reach this ambitious target, we want to build and sustain our defence industrial base and learn from real-world examples, such as the conflict in Ukraine, where we know that efficient R and D, innovation and adoption have been operationally decisive.

While there may be more than one definition of “dual use”, we consider it to be technologies, goods and services that can have an application in the commercial civilian market or the defence, security and intelligence market.

One example of dual-use technology is drones or unmanned autonomous systems. Drones can be used for intelligence collection, reconnaissance and surveillance, and/or to deliver a military effect. They can also be used for tracking wildfires, for example, or for environmental monitoring.

The defence industrial strategy is positioned to accelerate the adoption of Canadian defence and dual-use innovations in drones and many other sovereign capabilities, and turn that into a strategic advantage for the Canadian Armed Forces. That is why Colonel Prince is here, and I hope he will have a chance to share his operational experience with you.

It goes without saying that we are working closely with our federal partners, the provinces and territories, municipalities, and higher education and research institutions. This is now a national effort.

There are barriers to overcome for the system to work as it should. We know that industry requires a clear demand signal from national defence. We also know that we want to protect our investments and our industrial advantage, which is why co-operation with Public Safety Canada is so important and why Dr. Green is ready to speak more about this.

I will close my half of the remarks by highlighting some specific actions under the defence industrial strategy that may be relevant to your study.

First, we established a new science and research defence advisory council to strengthen collaboration and to facilitate open discussion between federal partners and post-secondary institutions on, specifically, defence and dual-use R and D.

We are accelerating the security clearance process for defence sector personnel and establishing a standardized accreditation process for industry-operated secure facilities.

We have invested $244 million in defence and dual-use technologies through the defence industry assist stream of the National Research Council's IRAP.

Also, we stood up BOREALIS, which is why I'm pleased to turn to Dr. Kaminska to finish the opening remarks on behalf of National Defence.

Kate Kaminska Director General, Bureau of Research, Engineering and Advanced Leadership in Innovation and Science and Defence Research and Development Canada, Department of National Defence

Thank you, Mr. Chair and honourable members of the committee, for the opportunity to appear before you today.

I'm pleased to be able to discuss the bureau of research, engineering and advanced leadership in innovation and science, otherwise known as BOREALIS, and its role in strengthening Canada's defence and security innovation.

As the committee has heard from previous witnesses, Canada has world-class talent, cutting-edge research and globally competitive firms. The challenge is ensuring that sovereign Canadian technologies can move quickly from research and development into operational use in support of Canada's defence and security.

BOREALIS was established as part of Canada's defence industrial strategy to help accelerate that transition. Its focus is on strengthening the pathways between research, development, testing and operational adoption by better connecting government, industry, academia and military end-users around shared mission priorities.

A key component of this effort is the establishment of defence innovation secure hubs, otherwise known as DISHs. These hubs provide secure environments where Canadian companies, researchers and government can work together to design, prototype, test and refine their technologies.

In November 2025, a pilot DISH was established in Halifax, focused on the undersea domain, including autonomous systems, advanced sensing and AI-enabled analytics. The pilot has already supported collaborative testing and experimentation activities, helping Canadian companies evaluate and refine their technologies.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Tony Baldinelli

Dr. Kaminska, could you wrap up quickly?

3:45 p.m.

Director General, Bureau of Research, Engineering and Advanced Leadership in Innovation and Science and Defence Research and Development Canada, Department of National Defence

Kate Kaminska

In closing, BOREALIS represents an effort to strengthen Canada's ability to translate research excellence into operational capability.

Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Tony Baldinelli

Dr. Green, go ahead.

Adam Green Director, National Security Policy, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and honourable members.

Thank you for the opportunity to speak before this committee today.

My name is Adam Green. I'm the director for national security policy at Public Safety Canada. Part of my remit is to oversee the activities of Public Safety's research security centre.

To begin with, I want to properly frame the remit I will speak to you about today. The research security centre is at the heart of Canada's approach to the challenge of research security, which is a topic that I know has been at the core of the concerns of this committee.

For the committee's clarity, while we do provide information to researchers in academia on a range of security-related topics, during which questions about the security process can be raised, responsibility for personnel-vetting and for delivering security clearances is beyond the scope of the centre's activities.

As you are likely aware, national security threats targeting intellectual property and technological know-how have been increasingly prevalent over the last decade as Canada is placing itself amongst the global leaders in research and technology.

Canada's cutting-edge innovation in fields such as artificial intelligence, quantum and aerospace makes the entire research ecosystem particularly vulnerable to threats such as espionage, foreign interference and theft. What makes us innovative and competitive can also make us a target.

To tackle this head-on, in 2022, the federal government made significant investments to enhance Canada's research security posture so as to ensure that Canadian research, innovation and intellectual property would be protected.

Part of this funding was used to establish the Research Security Centre which serves as an entryway for the academic community into the Government of Canada for research security advice and guidance. Taken together with a range of policies and processes enacted over the past five years, Canada's research security posture has made us a global leader in this space.

I am very proud to be here before this committee and in a position to share with you that our work is highly regarded by our allies and like-minded partners. Countries throughout Europe, Asia and Oceania regularly look to us to share our experience, provide best practices and to interrogate how they can learn from our approach on this issue.

What sets us apart from most other countries on research security is that our policies are centralized and have a real ability to prevent potential national security threats before they can manifest. We do this by reviewing a proportion of federal grant applications to ensure that the risks relating to the theft of sensitive and dual-use intellectual property are mitigated. No other country in the world has a centralized function to do this.

Similarly, the named research organizations list of our sensitive technology research and affiliations of concern, STRAC, policy, is one of the first of its kind in the world and is referenced by several of our allies in their own research security policies and documentation. This made-in-Canada list is backed by a methodology and a set of tailored indicators that help us determine whether a foreign institution is connected with the military or state security apparatus of a foreign country that poses a national security risk to Canada.

The centre has been successful in building awareness of national security threats within the Canadian research ecosystem. We've delivered hundreds of what we call “safeguarding science” workshops. We've conducted over 140 national security reviews of grant applications. We've connected the right expertise with the academic sector, and we've built a network of hundreds of stakeholders across Canada and internationally. Most of this would not have been possible without buy-in from academia.

Finally, I would be remiss if I did not acknowledge the great work this committee has undertaken as part of its own 2024 study on the security of research partnerships.

I am pleased to share that the Research Security Centre has been working with its partners help implement this committee's recommendations.

One of the key recommendations made to Public Safety Canada was to encourage and assist post-secondary institutions in adopting measures to protect researchers and students who are the target of foreign interference on campus.

Our regional advisers, who are spread out geographically around the country, have been working with the office of the national counter foreign interference coordinator to coordinate visits to universities across Canada to speak directly with staff and students on foreign interference challenges on campus, and to offer guidance and support in addressing those issues.

We have also worked with our colleagues in other government departments, as referenced by my colleagues, to provide targeted and timely briefings to university stakeholders and researchers on a variety of issues.

These collaborative efforts have made Canada's research security posture much more resilient to emerging threats. Threat actors will continue to try to adapt their tactics, and academic partnerships will wax and wane with a range of countries, but we are confident that the necessary tools and policies we have put in place will continue to adapt so as to address evolving concerns.

Thank you very much.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Tony Baldinelli

Thank you, Dr. Green.

With that, we're going to go to our first round of questioning of six minutes each.

We'll begin with MP Ho.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Vincent Ho Conservative Richmond Hill South, ON

Thank you, Chair.

My first round of questions is going to be for the officials at the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces.

In your opening remarks, you mentioned the war in Ukraine. I want to follow up on that point for a little bit.

In 2024, Canada donated an advanced long-range air defence system to Ukraine called the NASAMS. We do not operate any medium- or long-range surface-to-air missile systems here in Canada.

We're gathered here today to talk about military spending. It's important to examine our capabilities' gap, and the Liberal incompetence that's expanding that gap.

This question is for the colonel, but anyone from the Department of National Defence can answer.

Could you please explain Canada's current surface-to-air missile capabilities?

Marc Prince Director of Land Force Development, Canadian Armed Forces, Department of National Defence

I'm not particularly familiar with air defence. It's not my specialty, but we can certainly look into that.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Vincent Ho Conservative Richmond Hill South, ON

On that point, how can we discuss further military spending when we can't defend our troops from modern threats? It seems like we're procuring advanced weaponry that we don't have for other countries. Is that a problem? Do you think that we need to procure weapons for our own troops, too?

3:50 p.m.

Director of Land Force Development, Canadian Armed Forces, Department of National Defence

Marc Prince

We have procured ground-based air defence for our troops.

I'm trying to find the nexus to dual-use here.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Vincent Ho Conservative Richmond Hill South, ON

On the weapons that you're talking about for our own troops, are they more advanced than what we procured in respect of the NASAMS in 2024 for Ukraine? Is that comparable, worse or better?

3:50 p.m.

Director of Land Force Development, Canadian Armed Forces, Department of National Defence

Marc Prince

I'm not an expert on air defence, but I can certainly take your question to our SMEs.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Vincent Ho Conservative Richmond Hill South, ON

Okay. I guess we'll turn the page.

I'm looking at the Department of National Defence's website. There's a whole policy on gender-based analysis plus at national defence.

I'm wondering if any one of you could elaborate on what role this policy plays in all the work that you do when it comes to contracts and procurement.

3:50 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy-Industry, Department of National Defence

Wendy Hadwen

The gender-based analysis is one of several policy requirements on accessing funds brought to us by the Treasury Board Secretariat.

We need to answer some key points about the impact of some of our investments, but we didn't come prepared to talk about all of defence investments at this committee. We brought research and development.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Vincent Ho Conservative Richmond Hill South, ON

In the research and development space, there are contracts and grants that are overseen. Do race and gender ever play roles in the selection of these contracts or grants?

Maybe Dr. Kaminska can speak to that, because she does a little bit of work on the grants.

3:55 p.m.

Director General, Bureau of Research, Engineering and Advanced Leadership in Innovation and Science and Defence Research and Development Canada, Department of National Defence

Kate Kaminska

Yes. I can speak to this certainly from the perspective of BOREALIS, the bureau of research, engineering and advanced leadership in innovation and science. As you may or may not be aware, one of the key initiatives is our defence innovation secure hubs. In February of this year, we launched a call for proposals for the next round of defence innovation secure hubs, targeting two technology areas, one of them being quantum science and the other being uncrewed systems, both of which have a nexus to sovereign capabilities.

As part of the evaluation process for that call for proposals, we certainly make GBA+ and other inclusive access considerations part of the evaluation process. This ensures that we access the best and the brightest talent—

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Vincent Ho Conservative Richmond Hill South, ON

So what you're saying is that gender and race or other identity markers are factors that you will consider in that consideration process.

3:55 p.m.

Director General, Bureau of Research, Engineering and Advanced Leadership in Innovation and Science and Defence Research and Development Canada, Department of National Defence

Kate Kaminska

It is a factor in the evaluation criteria of the proposals that we receive. They do undergo a GBA+ analysis, yes.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Vincent Ho Conservative Richmond Hill South, ON

Could you elaborate on how that would bolster our defence capabilities?

3:55 p.m.

Director General, Bureau of Research, Engineering and Advanced Leadership in Innovation and Science and Defence Research and Development Canada, Department of National Defence

Kate Kaminska

Well, certainly in the research space we consider the variety of views and perspectives to be a strength of any kind of research proposal. This has been borne out through previous initiatives that we have undertaken under the program we're using, which is called IDEaS. We continue that best practice to ensure that, again, we attract a broad range of stakeholders and innovators in order to bring the best and the brightest to be able to work on hard defence and security R and D problems.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Vincent Ho Conservative Richmond Hill South, ON

How would the GBA analysis promote that? Are you saying that you wouldn't consider the best applicants...if it wasn't for the GBA policy?

3:55 p.m.

Director General, Bureau of Research, Engineering and Advanced Leadership in Innovation and Science and Defence Research and Development Canada, Department of National Defence

Kate Kaminska

All applications are evaluated on merit first. Then we consider a number of factors as additional—

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Vincent Ho Conservative Richmond Hill South, ON

You say merit, but then you say also GBA, so—