Science and Research Committee on June 4th, 2026

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 39 of the Standing Committee on Science and Research. We are meeting today to have a briefing session with the president of the National Research Council.

I would like to make a few comments for the benefit of the witnesses and the members.

For those on Zoom, at the bottom of your screen, you can select the appropriate channel for interpretation: floor, English or French. I would like to remind witnesses that the committee members may ask questions in either French or English. If you will need interpretation, please take a moment now to prepare your earpiece and select the listening channel you need in advance to take full advantage of the time allocated for questions and answers. I remind you that all comments should be addressed through the chair.

I would like to welcome our witnesses for today.

We have witnesses from the National Research Council of Canada. We are joined by Mr. Mitch Davies, president; Dr. Julie Lefebvre, vice-president of emerging technologies; Dr. Ibrahim Yimer, vice-president of transportation and manufacturing; and Dr. Shannon Quinn, secretary-general.

Welcome to all of the witnesses. You will have five minutes for your opening remarks, and then we will get to the rounds of questioning.

The floor is yours. Please go ahead.

[Mitch Davies, President, National Research Council of Canada]

Thank you, Madam Chair, for the invitation to appear today before the committee on behalf of the National Research Council of Canada to discuss our mandate and activities.

I'd like to begin by acknowledging that the NRC's work takes place across Canada on the unceded traditional and current territories of the first nations, Inuit and Métis people. We recognize that indigenous peoples have been innovators since time immemorial. We understand that innovation is enriched by diverse ways of knowing.

The NRC was created by the National Research Council Act. It's a government agency that reports to Parliament through the Minister of Industry. Its mandate is to conduct, support and promote scientific and industrial research of interest to Canada.

Since its founding in 1916, the NRC has played a central role in building and contributing to Canada’s research and innovation system. Over the decades, the NRC has helped launch several major Canadian science organizations, including the Canadian Space Agency, the federal granting councils and others. The NRC has produced breakthroughs and solutions that have improved Canadians’ lives and supported industrial development in many sectors that form a significant part of our economy today.

Our work today continues to play a role in the industries of tomorrow, including AI and quantum, life sciences and advanced manufacturing, to mention a few. As Canada’s largest federal research and innovation organization, the NRC advances scientific and technical knowledge, supports business innovation and industry development, and delivers on areas of national priority.

For the fiscal year 2025–26, the NRC’s total expenditures were over $1.9 billion, while the total revenue was $222.3 million, reflecting strong collaboration with industry and government partners.

We survey our clients and partners on an annual basis. In our most recent survey, 95% of respondents said that the NRC had helped them achieve results.

Our research covers four major areas, which are detailed in our 2024‑2029 strategic plan: quantum and digital technologies; health and biomanufacturing; climate change and sustainability; and support for foundational research.

Within these priority areas, our work supports issues that we hear about and that Canadians are interested in, of course, such as housing, defence, quantum technologies and artificial intelligence, among many.

Through the industrial research assistance program, which has been in existence for over 75 years, the NRC supports Canadian SMEs in developing new technologies, products and services that drive innovation and industrial development. The NRC IRAP supports close to 10,000 businesses every year, sustaining over 13,000 jobs across Canada. The IRAP consistently supports businesses that go on to achieve strong revenue growth, job growth and the creation of long-term value.

The NRC’s scientific expertise, long-standing collaboration with the Department of National Defence and strong connections to SMEs position us to support Canada’s defence industrial strategy. The Government of Canada committed $996.2 million to the NRC to support defence research and innovation initiatives, such as the drone innovation hub and the NRC IRAP’s defence industry assist initiative, which will help SMEs develop defence and dual-use technologies.

More than a century after its creation, the NRC continues to advance national research and innovation priorities, thereby contributing to Canada's prosperity and sovereignty in a complex world.

Thank you, Madam Chair. My colleagues and I look forward to answering the committee's questions today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you.

With that, we will get into our first round of questioning. It's six minutes each.

We will begin with MP Baldinelli for six minutes.

Please go ahead.

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls—Niagara-on-the-Lake, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here this morning.

Mr. Davies, thank you, in particular. It's good to see you again.

My first question is going to revolve around the comprehensive expenditure review.

The NRC's 2026-27 departmental budget mentions that it is planning the following spending reductions: over $95 million in 2026-27, $127 million in 2027-28 and over $190 million in 2028-29. Further, it's anticipated that these spending reductions will involve a decrease of approximately 510 full-time-equivalent jobs by 2028-29.

Regarding the job reductions taking place, when will the jobs be impacted? Is it over the course of the next several years, or are you starting those job reductions now?

[Mitch Davies]

Thank you for the question.

The reductions at NRC, in terms of head count, are already under way. We provided notices to 180 employees some time ago, earlier this year. In fact, we're far enough along that we've also been able to find 24 positions in other parts of the council for some of those people, which we're grateful to be able to do. Some people have begun to exit the NRC as a consequence of that first phase.

Over the course of the next year, we will proceed to provide notice and information to the remaining employees affected by our overall 510 reductions. Those reductions will take place over the—

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls—Niagara-on-the-Lake, ON]

Mr. Davies, is this in any particular area? What specific jobs are at risk or have been lost in certain departments? Can you detail where those job losses have taken place?

[Mitch Davies]

There are two significant areas that are important in the way we've approached the reductions.

First off, we used our strategic planning—which was already well under way and quite robust across the council—to make clear decisions about areas of research that are strong and have merit but that may not be at critical mass or as aligned with our plan. We made decisions to reduce there and to focus our areas of research so we can have maximum impact. We want research excellence to persist at the council, so we've had to make some choices. This means that areas of work the council carried for many years have been discontinued.

We will also be reducing our overall corporate internal services and providing efficiencies. That will be a very significant part of our reduction program.

Overall, our purpose here is to focus, unambiguously, on the country's priorities and to use our strategic plan, which is quite robust, to come up with solid answers on what we should offer as an organization, going forward.

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls—Niagara-on-the-Lake, ON]

Could you share with us the specific departments within the NRC that are impacted the most—the job complements in certain areas? What research bodies are being particularly impacted? If you could share that with the committee, it would be good.

I also want to go to the departmental plan, where it talks about the use of artificial intelligence. The plan says, “To strengthen internal capacity, the NRC is deploying enterprise-grade generative AI tools to improve efficiency”.

What companies is NRC working on AI with?

[Mitch Davies]

Thanks for the question.

We have a significant and deep capability in AI. We've been working in AI for over 30 years.

Our approach was to unlock the internal capability of our research centre to drive what our AI strategy for adoption would be. I don't think every organization is positioned the way we are, with the amount of expertise we have. What we've done is build an approach that's very responsible, which means we've built an environment for using AI at the protected B level in terms of security, so our information is staying on our own systems. It's not going out to the general Internet. We're able to ensure that we're adhering to the government information security standards that the standards people would expect of us when we're using AI.

Another thing is building tools that actually fit our role. Because we're in the research business, we have a lot of internal data that needs to be used to train AI models for very specific purposes. We have a lot of experts who can unlock that opportunity. That's what we describe when we're talking about using our own approach to AI. You bring in the models, but then you build your own internal usage, which is very carefully designed so that you're not going out to the general Internet.

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls—Niagara-on-the-Lake, ON]

On those models you're bringing in, are they Canadian companies that you're using, like, for example, Cohere? What companies are you partnering with?

[Mitch Davies]

We do work with Cohere and know them well. We work with them on projects in the responsible AI area, for example, but quite frankly, you need to make available AI models from a variety of sources to have a robust approach.

The question is how you make them available to your workforce so that you're also responsible for where information goes and how you're employing those models. The other thing is that you have to add expertise to the use of the models, because they obviously have issues.

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls—Niagara-on-the-Lake, ON]

Quickly, in the short time I have, could you also share with the committee, with us, who those AI models are? Also, the government will be launching its AI strategy later on today, in my understanding.

Did the NRC have any input into the consultation process when they were seeking input from the public and stakeholder groups? Did they seek input from the National Research Council in the development of the AI strategy?

[Mitch Davies]

Within the ISED portfolio, we obviously work closely with many officials in the department who are involved in the formation of such strategies. I don't think it would be a case where the NRC would seek to be involved as a matter of public consultation. I mean, we are positioned to be able to contribute our capability and our advice. We work very closely with our colleagues in ISED on all matters related to AI, responsible AI—

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls—Niagara-on-the-Lake, ON]

ISED—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting. The time is up for MP Baldinelli. Maybe you can come back to that in the second round.

We will now proceed to MP Nathan for six minutes.

Please go ahead.

[Juanita Nathan, Liberal, Pickering—Brooklin, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and, through you, I want to thank all the witnesses today.

For my first question, Canada has made progress in increasing participation by women in science, technology, engineering and mathematics, but representation remains uneven in certain advanced research and technology sectors. What has the NRC learned about attracting and retaining women in research and scientific leadership positions, particularly in fields such as advanced manufacturing, artificial intelligence and emerging technologies? What do you see as opportunities for future progress or growth?

[Mitch Davies]

The question is very important, because obviously we aim in our plan for inclusive innovation: that means our workforce reflecting Canada and also the way we work reflecting diverse communities and different interests in Canada. Those two things are fundamental.

I can report to the committee that in terms of the availability of women in the fields where we would recruit for our expertise, we exceed the labour market availability at this current time at the NRC, and that's been the case for some time. I don't want to say that as if that means that things are over. We also have to look at how people move and how their careers develop and keep a very close eye on different communities as they experience the NRC and the workplace in the NRC. This is very important.

We have over 90 nationalities in the NRC's workforce—a very diverse workforce—and this is something built up over many years of our recruitment in various fields. I would also say that at NRC we have a very strong representation of women in very serious areas of engineering, as well as science, because we have a lot of engineering talent as well as scientific talent. This is something that contributes greatly.

You'll see in many of the experts we're profiling regularly in various fields of construction research a lot of very significant and very well-accomplished women who are playing key roles in working in research in areas of construction, where, in fact, even the industry itself may well be working on representation. I think our research team is actually very strong and is reflecting well the Canadian population and the talent that's available.

We're seeing that in the recruitment we're undertaking. We have astoundingly high-quality people from all walks of life and diverse backgrounds come to us and want to work with the organization. We're very pleased with that.

[Juanita Nathan, Liberal, Pickering—Brooklin, ON]

Thank you for that.

In your opening remarks, you did mention that innovation is enriched by diversity. In your answer, you're talking about recruiting in diverse communities. Can you talk a bit about how these recruitments happen? Also, are you particularly targeting newcomers, indigenous innovators or people from under-represented groups? How do you recruit them?

[Mitch Davies]

The council has had targets specifically in areas where we need to achieve labour market representation. A particular area where we're still striving and still have more work to do is in the recruitment of indigenous persons to join the NRC organization. We have made progress, but we still need to work to close the gap in terms of labour market availability.

We are also working very hard to have more persons with disabilities join the NRC. It's an area where we have a continued gap in labour market availability and in our workforce.

Those are two areas of focus, and we have set targets for those. We're quite intentional about following up and developing ways to reach out and be proactive in order to actually close these gaps. We put a lot of active work into it, but I would say that it remains a work-in-progress.

In terms of racialized Canadians, we've seen the most recent survey, which is new, and it has given us a challenge, as Canada has changed and the composition of the Canadian population is changing. We would have been exceeding our labour market availability in the previous survey, but now we have a small gap to close. I'm actually quite confident that we will do so.

Quite frankly, this cascades down through the organization through accountabilities to me in terms of our performance, and we have a pretty strong program to monitor what we're doing on an ongoing basis.

[Juanita Nathan, Liberal, Pickering—Brooklin, ON]

Very good. Thank you so much.

Canada's innovation economy depends not only on breakthrough discoveries but also on ensuring that students, apprentices, technicians and early-career researchers can participate in turning those discoveries into real-world solutions.

How is the NRC working with colleges, universities and industry partners to ensure that young Canadians gain the skills and hands-on research experience needed to participate in these emerging sectors, such as AI, advanced manufacturing, clean technologies and quantum computing?

[Mitch Davies]

I would highlight that the NRC has maintained a very strong program of student recruitment, in the neighbourhood of 500 students every year, and we will continue to meet that goal even when we're making changes to our operating budget. We are sensitive that the organization can't be cut off from the talent pipeline. We need to continue to renew the workforce.

Just as an example, we were talking earlier about AI. The way we're achieving the progress that we're achieving at the council is by hiring students to come in and work on AI projects, because they come in with the skills we need. The way you make progress in AI is by hiring younger people who are actually familiar with it and comfortable with it. They're learning this. They're very enthused. They're happy to join an organization like ours, which offers so many dynamic opportunities.

That's actually what we've done. We've hired students to work on a whole range of summer projects on AI advancements that we can adopt and that can become actual systems at the NRC.

This is just one example, and we do that quite intentionally. Having students, co-ops and post-doctoral fellows come to join the NRC is a very important part of our talent plan. We're very heartened, because there are a lot of really smart, capable people in the country. It makes our job challenging, because we have to select the best among them to join the NRC.

[Juanita Nathan, Liberal, Pickering—Brooklin, ON]

Thank you for that.

As my final question, how is the NRC helping to ensure that opportunities in Canada's innovation economy are accessible to young people across the country, including those from smaller communities and—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting. Your time is up. Maybe you can come back to that in the next round. Thank you.

We will now proceed to MP Blanchette-Joncas for six minutes.

Please go ahead.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Davies, does the National Research Council of Canada play a strategic governance role in the sectors it identifies on its own to be priorities?

[Mitch Davies]

I'll just use one example to illustrate it: aerospace. It's an area of industrial capability in which Canada is unique among a very few nations, in that we can actually achieve what we do industrially in aerospace. NRC has been involved from the very beginning of that industry, and we are still involved. We continue to have very deep connections. For example, in Quebec, in Aéro Montréal, we are at the table. We're participating as a member of that ecosystem.

In fact, I think what distinguishes the NRC in particular is that we take a seat with industries. We sit at their tables, so we know what their needs are and we're meeting their needs. We consider it part of our way of working, and it has served us well over many decades.