Science and Research Committee on June 11th, 2026

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'll stop the clock.

Can you quickly answer?

[Shannon Quinn]

The answer was that it's based on merit.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Please go ahead, MP Ho. You have 26 seconds left.

[Vincent Ho, Conservative, Richmond Hill South, ON]

When you get the applications back and ask for these identity markers, how do you verify whether the identity markers are true? Is there any kind of verification mechanism? If someone says they're indigenous, do you just take it at face value?

[Shannon Quinn]

We rely on self-identification.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

The time is up.

We will now proceed to MP McKelvie for five minutes.

MP McKelvie, please go ahead.

[Jennifer McKelvie, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to follow up on some of the lines of questioning that we've been hearing today, because I feel that there's a bit of an assault on women in science and in technology, which I think is incredibly important.

I will point out that it was former Conservative minister Rona Ambrose who created programming to ensure that there was this equity out there, particularly for women in the fields of STEM.

I'll get to my question for you, but I wanted to point out the importance of unique teams and how important it is to have women there, as well as some of the contributions they have made. For example, in automotive, there are windshield wipers, turn signals—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting, MP McKelvie.

I request that all the members stop the crosstalk. Please allow the person whose time it is to speak. I'm hearing voices from both sides. I request that you respect the other members' time.

MP McKelvie, please go ahead.

[Jennifer McKelvie, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

As we're looking at excellence in technology, ensuring that we are going down this road of dual use in defence, for example, and recognizing that in many cases women are now soldiers and taking leading roles in the military, it's important to have them at the table.

Could you comment on how the diversity of teams leads to better outcomes? I'll point out, particularly in the military, that we know women have different needs around body armour, flight suits, rucksacks and footwear. Why is it important that we're including women in the teams that are out there doing this research at the NRC?

I'll put that question to Dr. Lefebvre and Dr. Quinn.

[Julie Lefebvre]

You could imagine that ideas come from a diversity of perspectives, as well as the importance of ensuring that, as we develop technologies, we are mindful of the demographics of Canada and of the ability to serve all Canadians. With that, you get much better products, you get much better innovation and you're able to address all the needs of Canadians.

[Jennifer McKelvie, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Thank you. I find that comforting, because I have a cousin who is serving our country in Latvia right now with NATO, and I have a niece who is out serving in Halifax and may be deployed. It's important that the equipment we are designing and the research and development we're doing are suiting their needs, as well as those of all Canadian soldiers. It's important to have diverse teams out there.

I want to pivot my questions to Mr. McDonald.

In the past, we've spent some time talking about colleges and their unique role. As we're embarking on this dual-use research, what are the particularities that make colleges very well suited to this? I will point out that we've heard, for example, differences in the way IP is owned, as well as differences in overhead.

There are some advantages with colleges that I'm hoping you could elucidate.

[Michael McDonald]

That's a fantastic question.

I think that we would highlight the specific pieces as follows: First, it's a partner-based research model, which means that the company coming in the door—or potentially the Canadian Armed Forces coming in the door—has a specific problem being responded to by our research centres. That, at the end of the day, is core to a college applied research system, and it changes what that is geared towards. Curiosity in research is extremely important, and if somebody has a problem, so is being able to respond to that directly.

The second point is that intellectual property remains with the partner. At this point, as an academic institution, we're not necessarily geared towards commercializing the IP itself. That stays with the firm that had the business case, that had the idea. They wanted to move forward with this and being able to empower that, and 99% of our partners are Canadian firms. Ensuring that Canadian firms are empowered with their IP and going forward for future investment and scaling are essential points, as is making sure that they are able to commercialize effectively.

The last one is the speed. This is all based on models that are able to turn around. Eighty per cent of the projects are done within a year, and that aligns, from what we understand from our business partners, with their business cycles in a way that responds to what are pressing needs, to develop and innovate products in a way that's needed. We think this maps particularly well on the conversations about what the Canadian Armed Forces may be needing, and I'd highlight remarks from Vice-Admiral Topshee—I think he was on the Curse of Politics last year—in which he highlighted that some of the clearest innovations they were seeing within the forces were examples in which repurposed technology, which included things like target drones being repurposed to accomplish different services, would then allow a greater capacity. That's exactly the kind of thing that the college applied research system constantly does and helps firms walk through, and we think it then plays a really key and vital role within this.

[Jennifer McKelvie, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Are you following the defence innovation secure hubs? Do you see a role for colleges to participate in that? In particular, I know that, so far, quantum drones have been a major focus. Are you participating? What other areas do you think those defence hubs should be focusing on that colleges could play a role in?

[Michael McDonald]

Across the country, the applied research system for colleges has specialization in a wide variety of areas, and it's specialization. I'd highlight an example such as Centennial College, which has a landing gear innovation lab. It's very particular, about the landing gear and being able to improve that. In questions where that becomes...whether vertical takeoff and landing equipment, whether drone technology, that plays a role.

On the question of drones, multiple different centres, including that of Marc Nantel.... I would let him respond on that. On our specializations, I would go to SAIT polytechnic in Calgary, which focuses on.... There's a wide variety of others: marine technology.... These are all areas that underpin defence, but there are also areas of health care. There are also areas around serving some of the social services elements. These are areas that the college applied research system functions in as well. Depending on what the challenge and need is, that's, I think, the question that we would come to: Bring us your problems; we have research centres that can tackle those and find the partners who are best able to meet those questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you. Your time is up.

We will now proceed to MP Blanchette-Joncas for two and a half minutes.

Please go ahead.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

It's my turn to greet you, Mr. Nantel. I would like to thank you for your tremendous contribution to the committee's work. It's always a pleasure to see you again and to welcome you. I wish you a well-deserved retirement, and I hope we will have the opportunity to invite you back.

You are very familiar with applied research, small and medium-sized enterprises and the journey from idea to market. Since this study started, several witnesses have said that Canada does not lack research, but that it struggles to transform its discoveries into products, businesses, intellectual property and even industrial capabilities that remain here.

In your opinion, what is the main weak link in this chain? Is it prototyping, testing, securing early customers, government procurement or even scaling up?

[Marc Nantel]

Thank you for that question.

We could make improvements to more than one area. We certainly don't have military complexes like they do in the United States, for example. As a result, the government has rarely been a major client of innovation from companies, universities and colleges. So, it's a little more difficult. That's why some of our companies are doing things like—

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

Madam Chair, on a point of order: Is it possible to ask my colleagues on the committee to be quieter and to show respect for the witnesses and for fellow members who are asking questions?

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I said this before, but I really want to ask all the members to please allow the member who is speaking to speak, because crosstalk creates noise. It is difficult for the member who has the time, as well as for the witnesses to reply. I would request that all of the members please respect members' times.

Thank you.

Please go ahead.

[Marc Nantel]

Thank you.

It's true—we don’t yet have a supply chain that would allow the government to source from Canadian companies. That's why they're selling their products elsewhere. However, we will succeed in building one.

I'm going to draw a bit on the example of the defence secure innovation hubs that your colleague mentioned to highlight another shortcoming. The government has very high requirements for the laboratories it uses, which must be secure in several respects. However, it's rare for colleges or universities to have such facilities. When I was doing my Ph.D., it was here, in Building M23 on Montreal Road, and the military was working right next door. They had everything they needed to conduct military research safely.

If resources could be allocated to help universities and colleges upgrade their laboratories so they can participate in the defence secure innovation hubs, that would be very helpful.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you.

We will now proceed to Mr. Holman for four minutes, and then we will end the panel with MP Nathan for four minutes.

MP Holman, you have four minutes.

[Kurt Holman, Conservative, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to all of the witnesses for visiting the science and research committee.

Canada's defence and advanced manufacturing sectors increasingly require technicians, engineers, cybersecurity specialists and skilled trade workers. My question is for you, Mr. McDonald, representing Colleges and Institutes Canada: Are Canadian colleges currently producing enough graduates to meet that demand?

[Michael McDonald]

It's an excellent question.

These are key positions, not just in the defence industry but for the economy in general. Given some of the other areas of ambition that both this government and the provinces have engaged in, there are significant demands on technicians in high-tech fields.

In those areas, we continue to see that those graduates have very high and positive outcomes when they continue, but these are clearly in-demand fields, and not just for today. It looks as though that will be the case going forward.

As labour market information becomes clearer on additional demands, it may become important that we continue to fund and expand those kinds of roles—given the demand across the country, across sectors and across focus areas.

[Kurt Holman, Conservative, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Communities such as London—Fanshawe, the riding I represent, are home to advanced manufacturing, defence suppliers, aerospace companies and skilled trade programs. How important are colleges in ensuring that defence research translates into something for Canadian workers, Canadian production and Canadian industrial capacity, rather than remaining confined to laboratories?

[Michael McDonald]

This is fundamentally what the college system does. It is our job to serve our business partners and our other community partners and deliver the innovations and applications of research that they ask for. At the end of the day, delivering those things best aligns with the chances that they are going to turn into market returns for the firm, the entrepreneur or the company that's able to move and scale, and they know their market best. Our ability to help them is what we pride ourselves on, and being able to deliver that return.

These investments do not need to do just one thing. They don't even need to do just two things. They need to do three and four things, with that vital connection that turns this into other roles, including the training capacity.

I also want to emphasize that we especially ensure that veterans who are coming out have opportunities to take their know-how and come back into the innovation economy. We think we play a role there. I think Fanshawe is a leading example of the work that's done there, with their militarily connected college and the role and expertise that they set forward.