Evidence of meeting #41 for Science and Research in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was companies.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Seïn Pyun  Vice-President, Government and Industry Affairs, Bombardier Inc.
O'Born  Chief Strategy Officer, Council of Canadian Innovators
Yurichuk  Chief Executive Officer and Founder, Wuxly Defence
Perry  Director, Federal Affairs, Council of Canadian Innovators
McDonald  Vice-President, External and Member Relations, Colleges and Institutes Canada
Lefebvre  Vice-President, Emerging Technologies, National Research Council of Canada
Quinn  Secretary General, National Research Council of Canada
Nantel  Vice-President, Research, Innovation and Strategic Enterprises, Niagara College

11 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 41 of the Standing Committee on Science and Research. We are meeting today to resume our study on Canada's dual-use and defence research needs.

I would like to make a few comments for the benefit of the witnesses and the members.

Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. I will remind you that all comments should be addressed through the chair.

For those on Zoom, at the bottom of your screen you can select the appropriate channel for interpretation: floor, English or French.

Witnesses, I would like to remind you that committee members may ask questions in either French or English. If you will need interpretation, please take a moment now to prepare your earpiece and select the listening channel you need in advance, in order to take full advantage of the time allotted for questions and answers.

I would like to welcome our first panel of witnesses today. Bombardier is being represented by Pierre Seïn Pyun, vice-president, government and industry affairs.

Welcome.

We are also joined by, from the Council of Canadian Innovators, Daniel Perry, director of federal affairs, and Dana O'Born, chief strategy officer.

We also have, from Wuxly Defence, James Yurichuk, chief executive officer and founder.

Each of the witnesses will have five minutes for their opening remarks, and then we will go to the round of questioning.

We will begin with Bombardier.

The floor is yours, Mr. Seïn Pyun. Thank you.

Pierre Seïn Pyun Vice-President, Government and Industry Affairs, Bombardier Inc.

Madam Chair, members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. My name is Pierre Pyun, and I am vice-president of government and industry affairs for Bombardier.

Bombardier is a world-leading business aircraft manufacturer in Canada, with more than 12,000 employees proudly working to make aerospace one of Canada's most innovative industries and a champion in the export market. The aerospace industry exports about 80% of its production. For Bombardier, that figure is more than 90%. Bombardier alone represents approximately 1% of Canada's total export value and 5% of Quebec's total export value, across all sectors.

Our employees are proud to support Canada’s national security objectives. The aircraft we manufacture help countries around the world strengthen their defence capability.

My remarks will focus on the following: Bombardier's capabilities and impact in Canada, dual-use capabilities, and the strength of Canada's aerospace innovation ecosystem.

Bombardier has existed in Canada for nearly 85 years. Innovation is in our DNA, and we have proudly developed and certified 30 aircraft programs in 30 years to the highest safety and performance standards. Canada is among the very few countries that have the ability to design, manufacture and certify aircraft. This is a strategic domestic capability. Over the years, we have established a strong working relationship with Transport Canada. Bombardier contributed $7.4 billion to Canada's GDP in 2024.

11 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid

I'm sorry for interrupting. There's an interpretation issue. I will have to stop the clock. We need to look into it.

Okay, please go ahead.

11 a.m.

Vice-President, Government and Industry Affairs, Bombardier Inc.

Pierre Seïn Pyun

Bombardier supports close to 50,000 jobs across the country.

Bombardier's success is made possible by a robust network of more than 1,550 Canadian suppliers from coast to coast, demonstrating that the company is at the heart of a thriving national ecosystem.

Our work not only fuels economic growth, but it also plays a vital role in reinforcing Canada's sovereignty through innovation. Our expertise in aviation is recognized around the world.

Our expertise in business aviation also allows us to contribute to airborne defence. An important pillar of our company is to leverage our portfolio of Challenger and Global aircraft with our unparalleled engineering, complex modification, certification and maintenance expertise to offer business jet-based solutions for defence missions. We have decades of experience in this space.

Bombardier is known to be a collaborative and flexible partner. We have built long-term partnerships with governments and militaries worldwide and joined forces with the world's most advanced mission system providers. Bombardier delivers multi-mission, long-range, high-performance aircraft platforms used for different types of solutions, including intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance, airborne early warning, signals intelligence, electronic warfare, medical evacuation and more.

Bombardier business aircraft are chosen around the world for defence missions. Some examples include Germany with the PEGASUS program for signals intelligence, Sweden for multirole government transportation missions, the U.S. Army and the U.S. Air Force for HADES and BACN, and Switzerland for medical evacuation and government transportation.

We welcome the recent federal government announcement to invest in Canadian industry by favouring a solution based on the made-in-Canada Bombardier Global 6500 aircraft. We also congratulate Saab on being selected as the preferred supplier for Canada's airborne early warning and control fleet with its GlobalEye solution.

This announcement further highlights the versatility of the Bombardier Global 6500 aircraft, as well as its growing role in Canada. Last December, the federal government announced the purchase of six Global 6500s to enhance the RCAF's multi-mission air transport capability. This March, the National Research Council announced that it had acquired a Global 6500 aircraft for critical research and development activities.

Canada benefits from an exceptional aerospace innovation ecosystem built on the strength of its universities, research centres and technical institutions. Bombardier works closely with over 25 universities and technical schools across the country, including in Quebec, Ontario, British Columbia, New Brunswick, and Newfoundland and Labrador. We have research collaborations in place, as well as training arrangements with these universities, schools and colleges. Our internship program, for instance, has supported more than 9,000 internships over the past nine years.

Bombardier has taken part in several R and D projects through various programs and initiatives, such as INSAT, CARIC, TDP, Scale AI, NSERC and Mitacs. Research areas include aerodynamics, blended-wing body configuration, flight controls, cabin systems, predictive maintenance, fluid dynamics, wind tunnel testing and sustainable technologies.

We have also benefited from a strong and long-standing collaboration with the NRC—

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Tony Baldinelli

Your time is up. Thank you.

11:05 a.m.

Vice-President, Government and Industry Affairs, Bombardier Inc.

Pierre Seïn Pyun

Thank you very much. I look forward to the conversation.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Tony Baldinelli

We will now go to the Council of Canadian Innovators.

Ms. O'Born, you have five minutes.

Dana O'Born Chief Strategy Officer, Council of Canadian Innovators

Thank you very much.

Hello, everybody. As you know, my name is Dana O'Born, and I am the chief strategy officer of the Council of Canadian Innovators. I am joined here for today's session by my colleague Daniel Perry.

CCI is Canada's 21st-century business council. We represent the voices of over 175 homegrown Canadian scale-ups led by innovators and entrepreneurs.

We're pleased to support this study, and we commend the federal government for recognizing that Canada's defence and economic security are inseparable. The focus on building a full pipeline from R and D to commercialization, scale-up and global sales is the right approach, and it is reflected in the new defence industrial strategy.

Around this time last year, CCI and a number of cyber and defence companies came to Ottawa to meet with a refreshed government and a new cabinet. The discussions revealed that Canada lacks a reliable source list for its dual-use sector, prompting us to launch an ecosystem-wide survey with The Icebreaker. We identified nearly 430 Canadian-headquartered revenue-generating export-oriented firms, yet few sell to the Government of Canada, and these findings underpin our recommendations to the committee today.

The survey data also told us the following: Canadian dual-use firms are developing NATO-relevant capabilities; firms view government procurement as essential, but many struggle to access Canadian customers and to navigate the system; many firms are selling to foreign governments, suggesting that Canada is not fully leveraging its own defence innovation; there is a limited understanding of security and procurement rules, and this prevents firms from bidding and complying and effectively scaling in Canada; and many firms need support although a strong group could be fast-tracked with targeted assistance.

We asked a simple question: Can Canada meet its NATO commitments and strengthen our defence industrial base? The answer is yes, yet 11 months on, many of the challenges identified in our survey persist for the defence and dual-use firms we work with across the country.

Last month, Innovation, Science and Economic Development released a report of their own on the state of Canada's defence industry”. It revealed that Canada's R and D framework is suppressing the growth of small and medium-sized enterprises. Despite making up over 90% of the sector, SMEs have reduced their self-funded innovation to $136.5 million. Meanwhile, a 309% surge in government grants has created a false sense of progress as businesses survive on government research dollars instead of developing and owning their own products. For Canadian technology companies to scale globally, the federal ecosystem must reward private IP ownership and commercialization, not grant dependency.

The same disconnect appears in defence procurement. Despite a strong Canadian capability in AI, cyber and digital systems, the government is still failing to act as a strategic first customer. As a result, Canadian innovation is often being pushed overseas instead of being used to solve domestic capability needs. Both our survey and the government's report tell a story of Canadian firms finding faster success abroad than they do in Canada.

With defence spending on the rise, Canada has a chance to move from strong research and weak commercialization to turning ideas into capability, jobs, exports and a strategic advantage.

This opportunity matters even more in the context of NATO commitments. Meeting future defence spending targets is not only about how we spend but about how intelligently we invest and what we own. If we want Canada to contribute credibly to collective defence, we need a research and innovation system that can turn civilian research strengths into procurable military capabilities and export-ready companies while making the scaling of Canadian dual-use innovators a core sovereignty and defence policy priority.

This means aligning universities and colleges, granting councils such as the National Research Council, industry experts and federal departments in common missions to find faster pathways from lab to deployment.

We believe Canada should use this moment to do three things.

First, shift innovation policy towards commercialization and Canadian IP ownership. What we invest in, Canada should own, especially when it's a technology of economic advantage.

Second, make the new tools work for dual-use firms. The defence concierge service that the Prime Minister announced a few weeks ago should provide clear answers, clear pathways and clear timelines for Canadian companies looking to access government procurement opportunities.

Third, streamline and demystify the federal procurement scenarios by improving access pathways and significantly expanding targeted outreach and guidance so that dual-use firms can navigate requirements, compete effectively and scale within Canada. Without clearer pathways and stronger engagement, Canada may lose innovators, jobs and defence capacity to allied markets. We believe Canada has an opportunity here, given the capacity and intelligence that already exist right here at home.

Thank you so much for having us here today. We look forward to the conversation.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Tony Baldinelli

Thank you, Ms. O'Born.

Now we will go to Wuxly Defence, Mr. Yurichuk, for five minutes.

James Yurichuk Chief Executive Officer and Founder, Wuxly Defence

Thank you. Good morning, Chair and members of the committee. Thank you for inviting me to contribute to Canada's dual-use and defence research needs.

Before I begin, I'd like to set the stage with a quick exercise. Take a look at what you're wearing today and ask yourself, how much of it was made in Canada? My bet is this: Almost none. However, if you ask a room full of American soldiers, the answer would be nearly 100%. Why? It's because our allies have invested in the research, the innovation and the industrial base behind their soldiers' equipment. We have not. As a result, our Canadian Armed Forces are underequipped to do their job.

The data tells the same story. An independent survey of 500 CAF members found that 84% of their kit only sometimes or never fits properly, 82% buy their own kit out of pocket and 100% of the women surveyed reported fit issues. On top of this, our soldiers are paying for their own gear for protection—gear their country should be providing. At a time when we're trying to recruit and retain more soldiers, that's not good enough and it's not a good look. Every month we see new examples of this in the news.

I'm before you today to show you that there's a problem we can fix, and that everything we need already exists right here in Canada. In fact, I spent the last decade building proof of it.

My name is James Yurichuk. I'm founder and CEO of Wuxly. Wuxly is a Canadian-owned and operated manufacturer of advanced textiles, serving both civilian and defence markets, from Arctic outerwear to combat uniforms, made in Canada from head to toe. We are dual-use by design since 2015, and 99% of what we make has been made here in Canada. We employ more than 50 people in Mississauga, and we indirectly employ 300 more through our supply chain of over 100 Canadian suppliers. We have been Canadian when no one was looking.

There were three times that commitment has been put to the test. The first was during COVID, when the world was cut off from the PPE supply overnight. Wuxly mobilized and pivoted, and within weeks we started producing isolation gowns. Over the two-year period of COVID, we made 10 million isolation gowns here in Canada for nurses, doctors and our front lines. We could do that for one reason: We owned the IP and the supply chain.

The second came when Russia invaded Ukraine. We put up our hand again, delivering over a quarter million military soft goods to Europe. Included in that is 40,000 female-specific combat uniforms built around the realities of women in active combat.

The third test is in front of us right now: our own Arctic. Working directly with the Canadian Rangers, we have developed a complete cold weather system, head to toe, designed and made in Canada for the harshest conditions on earth, and we had it displayed at CANSEC. It is ready to go today.

Winter planning must start now. To me, that is what sovereignty means. It's not only fighter jets and shipyards but the ability to protect people wearing the uniform with equipment we control end to end. When taxpayers fund research here but the ownership and the manufacturing sit offshore, we end up paying to depend on someone else.

Now, remember what you're wearing. Canada imports nearly 95% of our clothing. That's $17 billion that's imported every year, and that money doesn't come back. We're hollowing out the supply chain.

It does not have to be that way. We're Canadians. We know the cold. Nobody does it like us. Nobody knows the Arctic like we do. This should be ours to lead in the high north and across NATO.

I offer the committee three priorities. First, define the “Canadian value” proposition. Canadian value means Canadian ownership, IP, manufacturing and suppliers. All four must be Canadian. Second, build clear pathways among universities, the NRC and Canadian SMEs. When academia and industry connect, dual-use research becomes equipment. The most agile innovation happens in smaller companies. Third, value total security, not lowest profit up front. A Canadian-made system buys you supply chain security, speed in a crisis, quality control and retained know-how.

Chair, before Wuxly, I spent eight years playing as a CFL football player. In that job, your equipment is not an accessory. No coach would ever send a player onto the field with the wrong pads, and we should never send a soldier into the Arctic or into combat in gear that doesn't fit, when the stakes are even higher. Gear is protection. It keeps people safe.

Our army commander, Lieutenant-General Wright, said it best: “the army we have today is not the army we need”. That includes the clothing and equipment our soldiers wear every day.

The question for this committee is whether we choose to build the army we need here at home or let someone else do it.

Thank you.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Tony Baldinelli

Thank you, witnesses, for your testimony.

We're now going to begin the first round of questioning with six minutes each.

We're going to begin with MP Mahal. You have six minutes.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Jagsharan Singh Mahal Conservative Edmonton Southeast, AB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank all the witnesses for being here.

Mr. Yurichuk, you mentioned that you were present at the CANSEC award-level defence exhibition. It was a privilege to see you there. It was such a proud moment for me, as a Canadian representative, seeing a 100%-Canadian-owned company on such a world stage.

That said, the Department of National Defence procures most of its uniforms and textile-based gear from Logistik Unicorp, which is owned by an American private equity company. Can you explain to this committee how Wuxly is different?

11:15 a.m.

Chief Executive Officer and Founder, Wuxly Defence

James Yurichuk

Certainly. Thank you.

First off, ownership, manufacturing, IP, design and operations are Canadian, Canadian, Canadian, Canadian. They are 100% Canadian.

What makes us different is our speed. That was proven during COVID, when Wuxly was unequivocally the fastest producer of textiles in Canada, and we made 10 million isolation gowns here. It was proven again with Ukraine, when we made 40,000 female combat uniforms, something that the Canadian Army has been trying to figure out for decades. They're currently trying to roll out uniforms for 2027, and they've been working on those for over six years. We did it in six weeks. This is a problem we can fix tomorrow. With one call, I can fix this problem tomorrow.

Beyond that, it's the innovation. We innovate the world's best gear. Canada makes the best outerwear in the world. We have to bring that prestige back. We want to bring that back. Wuxly can lead this. However, there's also the innovation in manufacturing. Automation, AI—these are things that Wuxly studies, and we can bring value here in Canada.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Jagsharan Singh Mahal Conservative Edmonton Southeast, AB

Thank you—

11:20 a.m.

Chief Executive Officer and Founder, Wuxly Defence

James Yurichuk

The last thing is that we have a big, beautiful, Canadian supply chain that goes from coast to coast to coast. We activate every province and all the territories, including Inuit makers, who have the know-how of the north more than anyone in the world.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Jagsharan Singh Mahal Conservative Edmonton Southeast, AB

Perfect. Thank you so much.

Let's move on to the next question. Earlier this year, soldiers from the Canadian Army were on an Arctic training exercise in Alaska. Over 30 Canadians had to leave the exercise early because of frostbite, and some were even hospitalized. I can understand the risk of Arctic training, but injuring over two dozen of our soldiers is unacceptable. How does this show that the government is failing to provide Canadian troops with the equipment they need?

11:20 a.m.

Chief Executive Officer and Founder, Wuxly Defence

James Yurichuk

That's a great question.

These situations of frostbite usually come down to fit, form and quality gear. This is something that we absolutely have to pay a lot of attention to. I'm hearing and seeing too much of this news coming up on a monthly basis, whether that's sleeping bags, whether it's frostbite or whether it's carrier packs that have to be handed in.

We have to bring this pride back into our country right now. This is stuff that Wuxly specializes in. This is something that we'd love to be included in, but there are challenges with procurement right now. There are ways that we have to activate. We have a supply chain of 70 companies, Canadian-owned, that are ready to go and fix these problems, but we're dragging our feet and we're not getting activated. I'm hoping that the DIA can take a special look at this.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Jagsharan Singh Mahal Conservative Edmonton Southeast, AB

Thank you again.

Edmonton is home to a large military base and thousands of soldiers. I believe that Canadian troops deserve the best equipment—no question. What would you like to see done by this Liberal government so that Canadian troops have access to cutting-edge equipment while supporting Canadian industry?

11:20 a.m.

Chief Executive Officer and Founder, Wuxly Defence

James Yurichuk

I think we have to look at being brilliant at the basics. We're seeing all the headlines about the exquisite systems and the foreign primes coming into the country. Give us a shot. Give companies like Wuxly a chance to compete. Let's turn Canadian companies, SMEs, into primes. Let's look at categories in which we can be the best.

Like a Swiss watch or an Italian suit, there's something special about Canadian-made outerwear. Look at the brands, at the civilian level, that have made it over the years. A lot of the impetus came from military times, and they brought great wealth, jobs and security to the country. Clothing and gear are super important. Let's look at that now.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Jagsharan Singh Mahal Conservative Edmonton Southeast, AB

Thank you for that.

This Liberal government likes to push the buy Canadian narrative. I agree that the government should buy Canadian, when available. Why does the Department of National Defence decide to buy most of its military gear from an American-owned company, and not a Canadian-owned company, like yours?

11:20 a.m.

Chief Executive Officer and Founder, Wuxly Defence

James Yurichuk

That's a question I continue to ask. I'm glad that you're raising it here.

It doesn't have to be Wuxly, but I'd love to see it going to a Canadian company. We know we can do it. We have to open up the lens a bit more to see what the capabilities and the talent are within the country, because Canadians can absolutely do it right here.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Jagsharan Singh Mahal Conservative Edmonton Southeast, AB

That's perfect.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Tony Baldinelli

That is a perfect way to conclude that one response and the time.

Now I'll go to my Liberal colleague, Mr. Rana. You have six minutes.

Aslam Rana Liberal Hamilton Centre, ON

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for their valuable time.

Mr. Perry, you have written about communities in southern Ontario, like Hamilton and Niagara, with real manufacturing and defence industry presences. What would help small and medium-sized businesses in those communities take fuller advantage of dual-use and defence research programs?

Daniel Perry Director, Federal Affairs, Council of Canadian Innovators

Thank you very much for the question.

Something that would help Canadian companies—and we identified in our survey, through which we found over 450 dual-use, Canadian-headquartered, Canadian-owned companies—is access to procurement. The buying Canadian legislation that was introduced in December was a good starting point, but the reality is that we need to have a clearer definition of what it means to be a Canadian company. You may put the maple leaf on your logo or say you're a Canadian company because you employ people, but that doesn't cut it. We need to think about where the IP is stored, where companies are mined and managed and where their senior leadership team is.

From there, the government really needs to look at buying Canadian when possible. We see that in the defence industrial strategy. They've committed to that.

We have a number of great Canadian companies, even inside of CCI. I think of Thornhill Medical—which is actively working in Ukraine, saving lives—and a number of other companies as well.

We need to make sure that, when we do have the capabilities, we are buying Canadian. Like my colleague James said earlier, his company is employing Canadians. They're headquartered here, but they're not getting the opportunities. We need to change that in our procurement systems.