Science and Research Committee on June 11th, 2026

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Lefebvre, I'd like to revisit a government decision regarding the industrial research assistance program run by your organization, the National Research Council of Canada. This is a critical program that operates across virtually all regions of Canada. However, the government has decided to transfer it to a new entity called the Canadian Innovation Corporation.

I'm trying to understand what the National Research Council of Canada—which is Canada’s largest research and innovation organization—was unable to do with the industrial research assistance program that the Canadian Innovation Corporation will be able to do.

[Julie Lefebvre]

I will ask Ms. Quinn to answer that question. My apologies.

[Shannon Quinn]

This is really a policy issue, and it should be directed to the Department of Industry.

For us, the industrial research assistance program is truly very important to the innovation system here in Canada. Furthermore, we are working hard to ensure that this program continues to make significant contributions.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

Ms. Quinn, my question was why?

What can the Canadian Innovation Corporation do that the National Research Council of Canada was unable to do for this industrial research assistance program?

[Shannon Quinn]

For our part, we do a lot with this program. Whether it's with us or with someone else, I have no doubt that it will be a rather effective program.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

Did the government not tell you the reason for its decision?

[Shannon Quinn]

We are dealing with that now to ensure that the program helps to respond to current defence-related challenges.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Your time is up.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

Okay.

Madam Chair, would it be possible to get a written response to this question, which simply asks why?

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

You can send in a written answer to the committee. That would be great. Thank you.

With that, we will now proceed to our second round of questioning and begin that with MP Ho for five minutes.

Please go ahead.

[Vincent Ho, Conservative, Richmond Hill South, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

My first round of questions is for members of the National Research Council.

I have some questions about the industrial research assistance program, IRAP. It is described as Canada's leading innovation assistance program for SMEs, small and medium-sized enterprises, designed to help companies increase innovation capacity and take ideas to market.

According to your website, the NRC has integrated DEI considerations into many of its operations, including the IRAP, to assess potential impacts of its policies, programs and initiatives on diverse groups.

If the purpose of the IRAP is innovation and commercialization, why does the NRC have DEI considerations in a program that should be judged on technology, productivity, commercialization and return to taxpayers?

[Shannon Quinn]

Thank you, Madam Chair, for the question.

The NRC recognizes the fact that innovation comes from all parts of Canada. It comes from all parts geographically but also from people all across this country. We want to make sure that the country benefits from the innovative ideas that are everywhere. We want to ensure that those companies, those small and medium-sized enterprises that are looking to innovate, all have access to the programming so that we really get the best that this country has to offer. That's why we do track the DEI—

[Vincent Ho, Conservative, Richmond Hill South, ON]

That doesn't really answer the question.

Does the NRC use the DEI and identity considerations when assessing IRAP funding?

[Shannon Quinn]

We track it to make sure there are no barriers to particular organizations or groups. We want to make sure that our programs are as accessible as they possibly can be.

[Vincent Ho, Conservative, Richmond Hill South, ON]

The NRC evaluation criteria says that IRAP funding has been integrating gender-based analysis plus, also known as GBA+, into its operations. If an IRAP funding application indicates that ownership, the board of directors or executives are from an under-represented group, can it increase the likelihood of funding?

[Shannon Quinn]

For the IRAP programming writ large, we have industrial technology advisers, who are out there all across the country. They live in the communities they serve, and they really get to know the businesses that come forward. The projects that are brought forward are assessed on a merit basis.

[Vincent Ho, Conservative, Richmond Hill South, ON]

Okay—

[Shannon Quinn]

We're trying to make sure that all of those companies that are meritorious, no matter where they are and no matter who leads them, have access.

[Vincent Ho, Conservative, Richmond Hill South, ON]

You said that it's on a merit basis, and it doesn't matter who they are or where they're from. That sounds great, but in the application, it's pretty lengthy. There's an entire DEI section about the firm asking what percentage of your business is owned by visible minorities or by women and what percentage are the executives, and you have to list the names of the individuals who identify as women. You have to identify what percentage of the board of directors is from these under-represented groups.

If you're saying it's all based on merit, then why are we tracking all this information? Why do grant applicants have to fill out all of this information?

[Shannon Quinn]

Over the long run, we need to have the data so that we know whether our programs are serving all Canadians, so we're committed to gathering the information that will allow us to report on that on a go-forward basis.

[Vincent Ho, Conservative, Richmond Hill South, ON]

How much weight is given to these DEI requirements or identity markers? Is it purely based on merit?

[Shannon Quinn]

For the IRAP program, it is based on merit.

[Vincent Ho, Conservative, Richmond Hill South, ON]

Can you explain how gender—

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

Could we stop the clock? I couldn't hear the answer fully. Could you ask the witness to repeat the answer, please? I couldn't hear it properly.

[Vincent Ho, Conservative, Richmond Hill South, ON]

This is eating up my time.