Evidence of meeting #44 for Science and Research in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was report.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Cardinal  Emeritus Professor, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
Niemann  Executive Director, Consortium Érudit
Lamoureux  Chief Operating Officer and Vice-President, Research, Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council
Thompson  Vice-President, Research Grants and Scholarships Directorate, Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council
Marin-Comeau  Vice-President, Corporate Services and Transformation, Canadian Institutes of Health Research
Kirton  Director General, Investigator Initiated Research, Canadian Institutes of Health Research
Turcot  Vice-President, Strategic, Corporate and Public Affairs, Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council
Gayard  Committee Researcher

5:25 p.m.

Chief Operating Officer and Vice-President, Research, Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council

Sylvie Lamoureux

Thank you for the question.

We have to consider the specific fields and populations that each agency serves. Studies on the Francophonie, studies on minority language communities anywhere in the world.... There's a higher percentage of SSH researchers who work on these questions, so there's a higher pool.

In an answer I gave before, when I was talking about the historical legacies, I mentioned that 40 years ago it was difficult to have more than a few courses if you were doing a Bachelor of Science degree outside Quebec, even at the University of Ottawa or Laurentian University. In other provinces, the access wasn't there. There's also catching up to where things are. It's about recognizing the differences in our populations, and I think that's more associated with us. However, I have very little control over the choices made by individuals.

I think there was a moment in time—well, I don't need to think, I lived it as a researcher—when there were, perhaps, questions about how things were done. However, there's been a lot of work done, particularly over the past 14 years. I saw it in my own funding applications: I was often not funded, but the feedback I got became better and better. It's about slowly building up trust for people to attempt writing in a language that they, perhaps, haven't used enough professionally. There are very complex issues at play.

Within our constituency, there are more researchers, like Madame Cardinal and others, for whom this is where they work and this is where they live. This could explain a variation of that, but I haven't done a study.

Aslam Rana Liberal Hamilton Centre, ON

Thank you very much.

You just mentioned “outside Quebec”. French applications from outside Quebec succeed at a lower rate than the average. What's driving that?

5:25 p.m.

Chief Operating Officer and Vice-President, Research, Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council

Sylvie Lamoureux

In her testimony earlier, Madame Cardinal mentioned the importance of the Fonds de recherche du Québec. Something I've been looking at, since I arrived at SSHRC almost four years ago, is the whole ecosystem of funding programs and how they can help scaffold researchers from when they are students to further on, and where the gaps are. Having been a committee member for the Fonds de recherche du Québec, I know that there are programs in the province that help develop capacities. When I meet funding organizations from other provinces, and they ask, “How can we help our researchers do better, regardless of the language?”, I tell them to—

The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid

I'm sorry for interrupting, Ms. Lamoureux. The time is up for MP Rana.

With that, we will now go to MP Blanchette-Joncas for two and a half minutes.

Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC

My question is addressed to the three granting councils.

The advisory panel recommends that the granting councils publish, on an annual basis, the success rates of applications broken down by language, program family, size of institution, region and the linguistic profile of the evaluators.

Are you prepared to make all this data public?

What about you, Ms. Thompson?

5:25 p.m.

Vice-President, Research Grants and Scholarships Directorate, Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council

Anne-Marie Thompson

We certainly publish a great deal of this data on a dashboard. We have statistics available online that are verifiable, as in the case of the discovery grants program, which I have just mentioned. All the information is there. We also have dashboards for grant recipients. For many programs, this data is freely accessible.

Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC

If they are public, why are we being asked to make them public? I'm wondering about that.

I am asking the three organizations if they can provide us with this data for the last 20 years. We will then be able to evaluate it and carry out our own analysis.

Beyond the aggregated data that is publicly available, as you say, will you establish a permanent, controlled-access channel to the microdata that will enable researchers—particularly independent ones—to study your funding mechanisms in a secure environment?

5:30 p.m.

Vice-President, Strategic, Corporate and Public Affairs, Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council

Marcel Turcot

Thank you for the question.

The committee has already requested data in the past. We have provided a great deal of data to the committee as well as to the public. We have taken the Privacy Act into account. We now publish millions of data records each year. We are reviewing our systems to see how we can continue to improve data coordination, together.

Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC

I'll be waiting for your reply.

I have a general question for you.

The advisory panel repeatedly cites the Fonds de recherche du Québec as an example to follow and also says that it demonstrates a great deal of leadership.

This is a truly broad question for you. I am trying to understand what funding bodies can achieve that the Fonds de recherche du Québec and Quebec institutions are not capable of achieving. If you could provide me with a written response on this, I'd sleep a little better.

The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid

Thank you.

We will go to MP Godin for three minutes and then end the panel with MP Deschênes-Thériault for three minutes.

Go ahead, MP Godin.

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you for taking part in this exercise.

I am not a full member of the committee, although I do sit on the Standing Committee on Official Languages. In June 2023, the Official Languages Act was modernized. I would like to ask about one thing. A report was produced a few years ago, and another report is being tabled today.

This question is addressed to the three organizations.

Have you received specific instructions from the Treasury Board Secretariat or the Minister of Canadian Heritage to adapt and improve the francophone lens in your processes for allocating funding to francophone research since June 2023?

The question is addressed to Ms. Marin‑Comeau, Ms. Lamoureux or Ms. Thompson.

5:30 p.m.

Vice-President, Corporate Services and Transformation, Canadian Institutes of Health Research

Chantal Marin-Comeau

Thank you for the question.

I do not know whether we received any instructions from them, but it is something we did because it was the right thing to do.

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

I'm listening, Ms. Lamoureux.

5:30 p.m.

Chief Operating Officer and Vice-President, Research, Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council

Sylvie Lamoureux

I can say that this happened shortly after I joined the SSHRC, but I was absent for six weeks on medical grounds when certain events took place. However, we were awaiting certain guidelines regarding part VII in particular. You want to know whether we received a highly specific guideline, but I would say they were more like interpretations of what it meant.

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

So, you interpreted it.

5:30 p.m.

Chief Operating Officer and Vice-President, Research, Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council

Sylvie Lamoureux

We had a lot of discussions to work out what it might mean. We waited for further clarification. However, we did not receive any specific instructions telling us what we were supposed to do.

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

So, these were tailored initiatives for each of the groups. That is my understanding. There was no official directive.

5:30 p.m.

Chief Operating Officer and Vice-President, Research, Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council

Sylvie Lamoureux

The directive is that it must be implemented.

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

You're talking about implementing the act.

5:30 p.m.

Chief Operating Officer and Vice-President, Research, Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council

Sylvie Lamoureux

The act and the provisions of….

I apologize, it's been a very long day.

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

No, no worries. It's been a long day for us too.

In fact, part VII, unfortunately, does not need to be applied, because the regulations have not yet been defined, once again. There is still time. It has already been three years.

Thank you, Ms. Lamoureux.

I'll be brief, as my time is very limited.

Ms. Thompson, I'd like to hear your views on this.

5:30 p.m.

Vice-President, Research Grants and Scholarships Directorate, Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council

Anne-Marie Thompson

If I may say so, I would say that, for us too, it is rather similar to what my colleagues have mentioned. We have taken several steps. We have increased the space allocated in applications by 20%—

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

That is not my question, Ms. Thompson. So you have not been given any specific instructions.

5:30 p.m.

Vice-President, Research Grants and Scholarships Directorate, Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Well, I find this rather peculiar. A law is put in place; the government has the will and the intentions, but Treasury Board, which has the responsibility and the power to intervene in all departments, has not issued specific instructions to the departments under your remit. So, that is rather peculiar.

I would like to hear your comments, Ms. Lamoureux.