Status of Women Committee on Oct. 3rd, 2006

[Yvon Dandurand]

I think that is something to be considered. First of all, creating the possibility of offering them temporary residence for a few months is already a step in the right direction. A mechanism has to be found to enable us to know whether such people are actually victims or not. If we open the doors wide and say that anyone who declares herself a victim is welcome in Canada, there will be a flood of people wanting to immigrate illegally to Canada who will declare themselves victims. We have to be careful because it could actually work against victims.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you.

Ms. Mathyssen, go ahead, please.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you.

I had a question. It pertains more to the ICCLR. I'm very interested in the work you do. You began in 1991, and that was through the initiative of the Canadian government. You're non-profit. How is your agency supported? Is it supported by the government?

[Yvon Dandurand]

I don't know all of the details of the support. I'm a senior associate. I do not manage the centre, but I do know that there's still support available to the centre through, I believe, the Department of Justice Canada.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Okay.

[Yvon Dandurand]

I don't know the extent to which it is supported. It also receives support from the Government of British Columbia, although not to the same extent.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

I noticed that you do research and policy analysis, disseminate information, and implement technical assistance programs. How important is your ability to disseminate information in ensuring that issues like human trafficking are truly addressed?

[Yvon Dandurand]

Our value is that we help other agencies and groups in Canada bridge and make relationships with people in other countries. Our ability to work in different countries, participate in policy development processes at the international level, conduct research, and so on, makes the centre a resource for others.

We have, for instance, worked with the national coordination centre. We have worked with people in British Columbia to support it, and brought to them whatever information and resources we were able to gather from elsewhere. In that sense it is an important resource, and, without modesty, I think it adds to our ability in Canada to fight the problem.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

If that funding were cut off there would be serious negative ramifications. I'm thinking about all of the agencies across the country, all of the groups that make sure organizations have the capacity and the information to do their work, and how very important that is in creating the full picture.

[Yvon Dandurand]

Yes, funding is essential for organizations like this centre, and for all of the other organizations that work in that area. Keep in mind that with transnational issues you're talking about moving across borders, travelling, and all of those other things, and none of that is cheap. I know sometimes it might look exorbitant, but just to deal with one case you might have to go to another country several times--either the law enforcement agencies, or whatever.

Very well-developed victim services agencies very seldom have an opportunity to work with agencies in other countries. They look after the needs of victims here and that's the end of it. But when you talk about trafficking in human beings, all of a sudden the victim service agency here has to connect with the victim service agency in Manila, or somewhere else, in order to make sure the needs of the victims are looked after and the person is prepared for her or his return. These are new things that were not done, are not funded currently, and create great need.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

The more support services there are on the ground, the more effectively we do our collective jobs, whether it be equality for women, economic security for women, or preventing the trafficking of women.

[Yvon Dandurand]

There's one more important reason. If we want to counter their problem, prosecute, and go after that form of organized crime, victims have to come forward. They have to cooperate with law enforcement and do all of those other things. Unless you protect them and help them, there is no way they're going to be able to do that.

Of course, you should help victims because they need help. We're kind and considerate and we care about them, but even from a point of view of controlling the crime problem, you have to work with victims, because otherwise you don't have a case. You cannot do a whole lot without their cooperation, and they will not cooperate unless they're protected and assisted. All of that is put together. That's why I said when we talk about protection, prevention, and prosecution, it makes some intellectual sense, but in practice you have to do all three or you have nothing.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you. I appreciate that very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Grewal.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to the witnesses for your time and your presentations.

Is there a connection between human trafficking, organized crime, and prostitution?

[Yvon Dandurand]

Absolutely. But there is also a link between that and the entertainment industry, and between that and the berry industry where I come from. There are many links, but that is the crucial one, as was pointed out earlier. The data we currently have, however faulty, seems to indicate that is one of the principal forms of exploitation that leads to human trafficking.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Do RCMP officers and investigators get training in human trafficking?

[Det Sgt Lori Lowe]

They are getting training. We have an immigration and passport investigators course that we put on across the country twice a year. They get a full day of trafficking training there. We are working with the RCMP academy in Regina, where the cadets are, to get human trafficking on their agenda.

There is a lengthy period of time when they study the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, and we have added human trafficking into that with a scenario, and different IRPA offences like smuggling. We're also talking with different police colleges across the country about working with their cadets. We are providing training to other law enforcement officers across the country.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Ms. Guergis.

[Helena Guergis, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

It has been suggested around this table many times that some of the root causes for inequities between men and women, criminal behaviour, and even human trafficking are based on economics. I'm wondering if you would agree with that blanket statement.

With my experience, volunteer work, and training, I know that it's not based entirely on economics. It's based sometimes on a way of thinking and talking about organized crime, as you have already mentioned.

Could you give us a little more on this?

[Det Sgt Lori Lowe]

We're looking at some countries where women aren't allowed to work. If they go to another country, they can work, but they can't work at home. So they get hooked up with a recruiter and leave their home to work in another country and become self-sufficient. That's what they think they're doing, but it's not what happens. That's where the deceit lies.

[Yvon Dandurand]

People who are vulnerable for economic reasons can be exploited, but people are vulnerable in many other ways. Sometimes they're vulnerable because they're not very bright. Sometimes they're vulnerable because they're overly ambitious. There are all kinds of reasons why people are vulnerable or make themselves vulnerable.

People who are economically vulnerable, who don't have access to opportunities, are ideal prey for human traffickers. But they're not the only prey.

[Helena Guergis, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

I would agree, especially in light of the work we're doing in Afghanistan, where the women are now able to leave the house. Their bones were breaking at one point when they weren't even allowed outside the door. So it's becoming apparent to them that there are many other opportunities out there, that the old way of thinking, what they've always been taught, is not the only option.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

There is one minute and eleven seconds left.

[Joy Smith, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

I have to reiterate an insightful comment that one of you made about the fact that there are some young women who want to be stars. They come from good families, but their ambitions are very strong. They see the modelling agencies, or the opportunity to go to Milan, as a way of becoming a star. Then, suddenly, they're not a star; they're trafficking victims and their whole lives are changed.

Would you agree?