Status of Women Committee on Oct. 5th, 2006

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

You have less than a minute left, Ms. Mourani.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

You referred earlier to the Charter of Rights. When your Government abolished the Court Challenges Program, do you not think that, in a way, we were creating two categories of citizens: those who can pay a lawyer to defend their rights and those who cannot afford to pay? Hiring a lawyer is very expensive, and it can be very difficult and costly to take a case all the way to the Supreme Court.

In a way, the most vulnerable among us, the people that can't afford to go to the Supreme Court to defend their rights, as well as certain underfunded women's groups, will no longer be able to advocate on behalf of women. Not only have you abolished the program, but you have cut $5 million from Status of Women Canada's budget. What is more, your Government is not interested in passing legislation on equity.

Do you not think that, taken together, these developments are a real disaster for women?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you, Ms. Mourani.

Let's have a short answer, if possible, Minister Oda.

[Bev Oda, Conservative, Durham, ON]

I think we've responded to the decision made on court challenges. It was something that I think has been there for 25 years. As I say, we as a government, with the support of Canadians, have decided to make sure the dollars are used in an effective way. I see it as our responsibility to make, through Status of Women, a difference in the lives of every Canadian.

As for the question on the ability to participate, I understand there may be some concern, but there also is...and we've looked at it; I know the justice department is very aware of what's available as far as legal aid and legal services are concerned. We're quite confident that we've made the right decision in more directly helping women in their daily lives.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you, Minister Oda.

Ms. Smith.

[Joy Smith, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Thank you.

It really is an honour to have you here today, Minister, to present to our committee.

Some of the things I have heard all across this country.... I too have met with a number of women's organizations that have been extremely pleased with the $10.8 million for programs that is still in place. I commend you for working with these individuals. I had a woman in from the YWCA yesterday. She said she'd read the newspaper, and after making some calls she realized the $10.8 million was there. She was so grateful about that.

The fact that you had the two round tables focusing on what actions could be taken by all levels of government, and working in such a collaborative way with all levels of government, and really being determined to take action on these issues, will make a real difference in Canadian women's lives. And I've heard that from several NGOs.

Certainly, it's a very exciting time for Canada right now, under your leadership, to see that action is going to be taken and things are really going to be done, so that it doesn't take years and years of reports and everything, but that things are actually being done. You're actually taking the work that's already been done and amalgamating it in such a way that we can have an action plan.

I'm very interested in the renewed terms and conditions that have been brought forward. I really like the idea that women are equal, that we have the Charter of Rights. That's why immigrants come to Canada. That's why my father and mother came to Canada: because under Canadian laws we are equal citizens, and we can rise to the top if we work hard and if we take those advantages.

You and I have talked. We've talked around this table today. I know that everyone around this table believes in the full participation of women in the economic, social, and cultural life of Canada. That is really what is so exciting.

I have a lot of women's organizations in my riding, and I've met with every one of them. They're excited about these new terms and conditions.

Can you specifically reiterate and talk a little bit more about how these renewed terms and conditions will actually benefit the women in the organizations in my riding? They're very excited about the fact that they're not victims but are equal people. They're ready to go, and they're ready to grow in the Canadian society.

[Bev Oda, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Thank you for your question. It gives me an opportunity to provide some more description.

I spoke yesterday with the minister for women from Newfoundland, who was very enthusiastic because she was able to describe to me those organizations in Newfoundland. These are the same organizations, many of them, that are right across this country.

She told me about an organization that is struggling because of the employment level in Newfoundland, which has been seriously affected by some of the industrial changes that have happened there. She was able to tell me that she too wanted to undertake that kind of real action in supporting those women on the ground.

We have women's groups--and we know they're right across this country as well--who won't get the advantage of more direct mentorship. There are women leaders in every community, but it's a matter of connecting those who have accomplished something through opportunity, through hard work, through sometimes just good luck, with those who haven't had the same opportunities, etc., and to be able to encourage them to help the next generation.

I know that we have a program in Heritage--it's in Heritage--called “citizenship”. In answer to a previous question, that's where I see the work having to be done to encourage and promote increased participation of women, of youth, of our immigrant population, and of our new Canadians in the political life of Canada. That's where it has to happen.

I also know that the Department of Health actually gives grants and helps out people. There are organizations that we have in every one of our communities. We all have the Red Cross. They get support from the Department of Health, not through Status of Women.

We also have an official languages program, which we will use then to help immigrant women who are struggling with having to adopt one of Canada's official languages.

We have a program that we support, the aboriginal women's associations, in making sure that they can have a voice. Many of these bands are now led by predominantly male organizations.

We have many programs under our multiculturalism program as well, and we believe that the status of women program certainly can play a role that will complement the existing programs within every department.

So I think what we're saying here is that we have settlement houses, and we can support some of the projects within those settlement houses that are specifically directed to women.

In my riding we have a women's entrepreneur organization. We can help them spread out and be able to mentor, as I said, and include more women who have aspirations to themselves being entrepreneurs.

So there are different ways. I think the primary thing here for me is that the responsibility of the Minister of Status of Women is not only to ensure that the programs are available, that the resources for effective programming are there, but also to be an advocate at the cabinet table and to challenge every one of my colleagues and to ask how this will affect women, how will it benefit women, when you present legislation. Ensure us that the gender analysis has been done and do not just allow any group of people to say, well, that's not our job; it's the job of that unit over there.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you, Minister Oda.

Our next questioner is Mrs. Mathyssen.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Minister, you're on record as stating that you believe women in Canada have achieved equality rights. The groups that have come to this committee, deputations, have indicated that we have senior women who still live in poverty. One in five Canadian women lives in poverty. Women who seek shelter are turned away due to lack of space. In Ontario already this year, 12 women have died at the hands of a spouse. Four women in my community have died in the last two years.

Are you telling this committee, and Canadian women, that there is gender equality?

[Bev Oda, Conservative, Durham, ON]

What I am saying is that if we don't believe women in Canada have equal rights.... We have equal rights. What we don't have is equal opportunity and equal chance. What we don't have is an equal--I guess I still have to go back to it--opportunity to fully participate.

What we're saying—and we totally agree with you—is that there is a disproportionate amount of poverty when you look at the statistics for senior women. But that's what we want to address, more than just identifying the program. I hope some of my colleagues who are sitting at this table and who have been leaders in their own professions, in their own lives, will come to the table and bring real solutions, bring real initiatives as to how to we can change whatever program the government has on equal rights.

We are going to do something about violence—

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you very much. I appreciate that. I'm glad that you are, Madam Minister, and I do have other questions.

I'd like to ask you, for example, if you have read reports like the January 2003 report of the UN Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination Against Women; the May 2006 UN Economic and Social Council report; or the 2005 report of the Expert Panel on Accountability Mechanisms for Gender Equality. How about the “Pay Equity Task Force Final Report 2004”; Stats Canada's “Women in Canada”, 2005; and finally, Minister, your briefing book? Have you read these documents, Minister?

[Bev Oda, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Yes, I have.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Well, thank you. If you've read these documents, then I'd like to know how you can cut funding and change the funding mandate for Status of Women Canada. These reports clearly state and outline that more funding is needed, more programming is needed to promote women's rights and the funding for advocacy.

Your new funding mandate clearly does not reflect the important role that women's groups play in Canadian democracy. These changes that you've made will make it impossible to sustain the women's movement in Canada. Your government is not listening to women's groups. It is not living up to Canada's international obligations, and women across this country agree. How can your government justify the restrictive funding mandate for women's programs and the funding cuts to Status of Women Canada and other important equality initiatives like the court challenges program?

Your mandate as Minister for the Status of Women is to promote women's equality. That role is clearly being ignored. Equality is not being promoted here, and you are letting down Canadian women. You're not fulfilling your mandate, Minister, and I have to say that I think it's important that I demand your resignation from the Status of Women portfolio. Until and unless you're prepared to do your job, we need someone else in that role.

[Bev Oda, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Let me just respond very quickly.

I have read the reports. In fact, that is why I've made the decisions and the government agrees with the decisions that I've made.

We have those reports, and I've actually taken the reports and all the reports that reference aboriginal women, and that's why I've been able to sit down with the Minister of Indian Affairs and get him to move in concert with all of my colleagues on increased funding for aboriginal housing, for a better plan for the education of aboriginal children and youth, and on establishing a process to address matrimonial property rights.

That is why this government is moving ahead: because we know that women are equally affected by not recognizing their foreign credentials. The number of qualified, experienced, educated women who come to this country.... I met a page last year. Her mother has two master's degrees from a foreign university and now she's cleaning office buildings. That is why we're acting.

We've read those reports, and we're saying that's why it's so important now, after all of those reports, after millions of dollars, for us to use those dollars now to effect real change and make a real difference.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Minister, if you've read the reports, I assume you've read this report. It says very clearly that women earn 71¢ for every dollar earned by a man. Why aren't you prepared to accept the findings here? Why haven't you come forward with new pay equity legislation? You say we have this legislation, the status quo, that it is acceptable. Well, it is not acceptable.

It's your job to advocate for women. If you're not prepared to do that, then would you step aside for someone who will?

[Bev Oda, Conservative, Durham, ON]

I will not step aside, because I believe I have been effective. In eight short months, this government, together as a government, has done more in real actions to help women in Canada than the previous government. I will suggest to you--

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Minister, you say that, but where are the results? Where is the pay equity legislation?

[Bev Oda, Conservative, Durham, ON]

If you will allow me to answer, please--

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Order, please.

[Bev Oda, Conservative, Durham, ON]

We've had Minister Finley talking about changes to seniors' pension plans, which will affect women. We also know what the reports have asked regarding pay equity. First of all, we want to ensure that what we have on the books regarding pay equity is being enforced and being recognized, and that is what Minister Blackburn is proposing--don't let those who come under the legislation ignore it. That's what we're saying--get in there and make people recognize their responsibility to women.

We have not ignored the reports, but in eight months we have taken many acts that will benefit all Canadians. Canadian women are not excluded when we reduce the benefit, because Canadian women care about the next generation, and that reduction in having to spend $650 million annually on just paying interest on our national debt is going to help. It's not Canadians without women; it's Canadians as taxpayers, equally.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thanks very much, Minister Oda.

Some of the reports that Ms. Mathyssen has referred to were various other reports, but I understand the minister has reviewed them and is very much aware of the content of them.

Ms. Guergis, you had a point of order.

[Helena Guergis, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

It's very much on what you're talking about, Madam Chair.

I just want to point out that on the pay equity report, we did not ask this minister to respond to this committee. I just checked with the researchers, and they've confirmed for me that we did not officially ask this minister to respond on that. I do know she has read it, but we are supposed to be having the minister who is officially to respond to that to this table.

I just want to point that out before we get our knives all over her. She wasn't specifically and officially asked to respond to that.

[Bev Oda, Conservative, Durham, ON]

I appreciate the clarification, but I just want to demonstrate that this cabinet works as a team. We do not work in silos. We, all together, as ministers responsible to the people of Canada, are equally responsible to the women of Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you.

We did get a government response to all of those reports, including the one on pay equity, that again is reflective of the government's response.

Ms. Stronach is the next speaker. We are now at five minutes for questions and answers.

[Belinda Stronach, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Back in May, this committee recommended a minimum 25% increase to the budget for the Status of Women. Now what we have is almost a 40% cut to the administrative part of this budget. We also have met with women's groups across this country, and there is serious concern that this cut, when you look deeper, is more than administration. It affects the important research work that's done, which is the basis for advocacy and reform to the system. The Status of Women is the one government department whose raison d'être is to give a voice to women. Now we see that the funding criteria have changed: equality is out, social justice is out, advocacy is out, capacity building is out. What's in? Funding for for-profit organizations is in and funding for spiritual initiatives is in.

I'd like to know who the minister consulted with, because once upon a time, back in May, this minister stood for equality for women and backed equality for women, and in fact said it needed more work. So after pressure from the Prime Minister to meet with REAL Women, this has changed. Why? What's happened? I'd like to know whether this minister, after listening to other women's groups across the country, listening to this committee, will have the guts to go to the Prime Minister to fight for the 25% increase, minimum, for this department.