Status of Women Committee on Oct. 5th, 2006

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

I call the meeting to order.

This is the 15th meeting of the Standing Committee on the Status of Women. We are extremely pleased this morning to have Minister Oda with us. She will be here to answer questions.

I understand you will be here for an hour, Ms. Oda. It is now 11:15, unfortunately, so I hope that means 12:15, but I am going to turn it over to you as quickly as I can.

We very much appreciate your getting here this morning and sharing your vision and answering some questions that the committee members have.

Minister Oda.

[Bev Oda, Conservative, Minister of Canadian Heritage and Status of Women]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Good day.

I am pleased to appear before the Standing Committee on the Status of Women. I would also like to take this opportunity to offer my congratulations on the elections of Ms. Judy Sgro as Chair and Ms. Joy Smith as Vice-Chair of the Standing Committee. They bring a strong commitment to women and their contributions will strengthen the work of the Standing Committee.

Recently, I tabled in Parliament the Government of Canada's responses to three of this Committee's reports on Status of Women Canada. I will discuss the Government's actions in response to these reports throughout my presentation.

Canada's new Government is committed to supporting the full participation of all women in the economic, social and cultural life of Canada. Canada's new Government fundamentally believes that women are equal. We believe that women are strong, achievers, leaders in every sector of our society, providers for our families, and role models. And I am sure you share that belief, too.

As the minister responsible for Status of Women, I am pleased to discuss with the committee my work to date. In my first months, I met with a number of women's organizations and individuals. I held two round tables focusing on what actions can be taken by all levels of government, the private sector, and NGOs to make a real difference in Canadian women's lives.

There was a strong consensus. All demanded concrete actions. That is why I am pleased that this new government has adopted new terms and conditions for the women's program. We will focus on supporting projects that will directly assist women in their communities. We will focus our efforts and support to address the economic stability of women, particularly senior women, and to end violence against women. We will be working with other departments across the government to support women in their various roles as mothers, employees, entrepreneurs, community builders, and taxpayers.

We know organizations across Canada have been doing their part to directly support women facing many challenges. We will now be able to more effectively partner with them in their work. We know direct assistance for women delivered more locally will have the greatest impact.

Barriers such as the need for training and updating skills, the need for personal advice on preparing for job applications and interviews, the need for mentorship in their local communities, or the need for immigrant women to access services, whether those services are provided by non-profit organizations or different levels of government, are the real needs faced by women in communities across the country. Our support will make a real difference in the lives of Canadian women. This government wants to tackle the real barriers that exist.

After over thirty years of existence, Status of Women Canada must deliver real, measurable results directly affecting women and their families. Through our expenditure review announced early last week, the new government has concluded that $5 million can be saved through greater efficiencies in the administrative operations at Status of Women. The women's program's grants and contributions will have the same annual budget of $10.8 million. The savings will not affect the $10.8 million available to support women.

In addition, we have committed to the Sisters in Spirit initiative. Our government will continue to provide $1 million a year until the years 2010-11. As we all know, aboriginal women have traditionally played a key role in their communities, and in October 2005 Canada was cited by the United Nations Human Rights Committee for failing to adequately address the high rate of violence against aboriginal women. These women and their children deserve safe communities.

I have met with first nations, Métis, and Inuit women's organizations, and their message was clear. They are looking for a government that will deliver change, that will act and make a meaningful difference in their lives. We must continue to support those in the aboriginal community, like Sisters in Spirit, who are taking action.

Canada was also cited in that same 2005 report as failing to address the issues of matrimonial property rights for aboriginal women. I supported and am proud that last Friday my colleague the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development, Mr. Prentice, announced for this fall a nationwide consultation on matrimonial property rights. These consultations with provincial and territorial governments, first nations, and aboriginal women's organizations are an important first step toward finding solutions to protect the rights and to ensure the well-being of women, children, and families living on reserves.

Aboriginal women are strong leaders in their communities, leaders such as Tracy Gauthier, chief of the Mississaugas of Scugog Island in my riding of Durham, who has ensured that the social and child care needs in her community are being met. Also, there's Leslie Lounsbury, who started the first-ever youth magazine in Winnipeg, and she is seen as an inspiration for aboriginal women across Canada. These women, and so many more, are vibrant reminders of how vitally important they are to their communities and how women can make a difference if given a chance.

I would also like to point out that this government has taken measures to strengthen Canada's response to the unique needs of the victims of human trafficking, victims who are often women and children.

On another topic brought up in this Committee, the Government Response to the Standing Committee's Report on Gender-Based Analysis (GBA) focussed on accountability. Gender-based analysis is an important tool used by federal departments and agencies to develop policies and programs that reflect the needs of all Canadians. In fact, gender-based analysis was actively used in the development of budget 2006. Agencies have already begun training their staff in the application of GBA tools.

In our future work in supporting the full participation of all Canadian women in the economic, social, and cultural life of Canada, our focus will remain to directly support Canadian women and deliver real results. We will continue strengthening accountability and supporting projects that lead to the direct participation of women. I am committed to working with my colleague ministers to ensure their policies and programs address the needs of women, and in particular, women who face barriers in achieving their goals.

I look forward to the standing committee's continued role in making these goals a reality.

Merci beaucoup. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much, Minister Oda.

I'd also like to acknowledge Florence Ievers from the Status of Women, who will be with us for the full meeting this morning to answer additional questions after the minister leaves.

Starting out, questions and answers are seven minutes in the first round, Ms. Minna to commence.

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'm going to try to do mine in four to four and a half minutes, because I want to share with my colleagues and get in as many questions as we can.

Thank you for coming, Minister. First, I want to say, Madam Minister, that I find it disrespectful to this committee and to the women of Canada for us to have to wait seven months to have you appear in front of our committee, and then to have only one hour, and at this, it's not even an hour, with the presentation.

I also want to table, Madam Chair, if I could, because this is part of my question this morning, a letter that was signed by the Prime Minister making a commitment during the election that he would respect the CEDAW agreement with the United Nations. I have a copy here for all committee members, if I may.

The minister talks a great deal about women's equality and talks about programs on the ground, most of which are being done by HRDC in any case, in terms of upgrading resumés, and so on.

But let me get to the crux of it. The criteria of the department have been changed dramatically. This department was established to fight for the equality of Canadian women across this country. If it hadn't been for this department's activism and funding of equality organizations in this country, women would not have equal rights in the Constitution. As the minister very well knows, it was women who fought for that and had to march on Parliament Hill to get that right, and it was as a result of that kind of strength.

That brings me to the questions.

In this changed world where we have changed the criteria, women are being muzzled; that is, organizations, advocacy, capacity building, all that is gone. Can the minister tell me this--and I'm going to go through this, and I would appreciate it if she would be short in her answers, because the time is tight. The issue of equality is gone from your criteria. Why is that?

[Bev Oda, Conservative, Durham, ON]

I will respond.

Fundamentally, this government recognizes that it's been 25 years. The charter is there. We recognize that women are equal under the charter and under any democratic society.

Equality was not a criterion, and in fact, the original establishing legislation for the Status of Women, although it's moved ministries, indicated that the purpose was to “co-ordinate policy with respect to the Status of Women and administer related programs”.

Of course, as I said in my presentation, we do not intend to touch the women's program or to touch the amount of money. We believe we have not in any way muzzled it. Every person, including women in this country, has the freedom and the support of this government to the freedom of speech and freedom of advocating on behalf of any interests. Women equally have access to all of that.

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Minister, with all due respect—

[Bev Oda, Conservative, Durham, ON]

As far as capacity building goes, we believe there are a number of organizations that have had many years to establish themselves. On a going forward basis, we've made a commitment. We made a commitment prior to coming into office, and we're fulfilling the commitment that we will make sure taxpayer dollars.... They're hard-earned dollars.

They are not vulnerable and weak; they are taxpayers. They work very hard for their taxes, not only as women but as citizens of this country. Consequently, we believe and we know they support more direct action to help overcome the identified barriers. After years of identifying the issues and the problems, we are now committed to doing something.

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

The minister is saying that all issues have been resolved, women are equal, they have no issues anymore, and there are no barriers. There are no systemic barriers, and all of the equality in every aspect of life is now provided; therefore, advocacy is no longer necessary.

Can the minister tell me why she dropped the issue of social justice from the criteria? Do women no longer have issues of social justice, and no issues with pay equity? Social justice is no longer one of your priorities for funding. Can you tell me why?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Minister, can you try to keep the answer short? Many of the members have a lot of questions.

Thank you.

[Bev Oda, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Well, I think some questions, as they're posed, deserve a fulsome answer. I'm here to represent the actions of the government and the policies and thinking behind this government.

As far as social justice is concerned, I guess what I would suggest is that it's not one or the other. We've never proposed.... We recognize there are barriers and there are challenges. We're proposing to use taxpayer dollars to help women in their daily lives and in their communities.

We have a numbers of studies that tell us what the barriers are. We received a report from Statistics Canada. In that report, at the presentation that was given, there were identified criteria or realities. We know that if we can move further ahead, if we can accelerate and emphasize the efforts in those areas, those trends will decrease as far as violence against women is concerned.

This is not a matter of saying there is a total disregard for whatever barriers are there. This is not about saying every barrier and everything has been solved. That is my first statement. Obviously we have not solved a lot of the challenges for women. It's why we are now focusing on helping women in their communities and in their daily lives to overcome those challenges.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

A very short question, Ms. Neville.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Minister, I hope you will come back, because there are many questions that we have to ask you.

I have a couple of quick questions.

I lost count of the number of times you used the word “real” in your presentation. I certainly hope it's not code for anything else that is happening here.

Could you tell me this, please? In the response to the standing committee, why did you indicate that you were committed to the full participation of women in the economic, social, and political life of Canadian society, yet there is nothing in the criteria on political life?

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Well, she eliminated it.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

It's been eliminated. Why have you eliminated from the original criteria...where Status of Women Canada does not provide funding to emotional, spiritual, personal, or professional development, and that now appears to be allowed for?

There are many questions on the criteria--and on not-for-profit.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Allow an opportunity for the minister to respond.

[Bev Oda, Conservative, Durham, ON]

I want to make sure I cover all your points.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

I didn't get them all in.

[Bev Oda, Conservative, Durham, ON]

I don't know what the question was about the reference to the word “real”. I use real as opposed to artificial. I use real meaning concrete. I use real meaning direct. I use real, because I know that in my community to have seen a woman take her children to a food bank for the first time, that's real. That's what we understand that we have to act upon.

We also understand that the cause of those kinds of incidents may not necessarily be within one department. Some of those problems are in the justice department. Some of those problems come out and are addressed in human resources. Some of them have come in economic development. This government is saying that we will address those across this government in the most appropriate way.

We certainly support organizations that do help with the emotional and other aspects of a woman's life, but again it's more direct and it's in the communities themselves. We know a number of these organizations that actually do that. I know that Ms. Minna in Toronto is very familiar with what is done in the Italian community at Villa Columbo to help women and families participate and the social services in having one place to be able to go, one place to engage young children with their grandparents, etc. This is the kind of reality that we want to see happening for every woman across this country.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

The next questioner is from the Bloc, Ms. Mourani.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being with us today to respond to our questions.

I have a couple of brief questions for you, but I would like to begin by addressing what I consider the prerequisites for holding a position where you are responsible for the Status of Women.

Your spokesperson, Ms. Véronique Bruneau, said the following in La Presse: “From now on, we want to support actions, not words”.

I'm assuming that your spokesperson represents you. Having said that, do you believe that advocacy, as well as the possibility for women to influence the federal, provincial or municipal governments, is nothing more than words, as opposed to actions?

[Bev Oda, Conservative, Durham, ON]

I'm trying to understand the flow and the thinking behind your question, but I'll just get to the ultimate.

As for actions and the difference that actions can make, we can all articulate and identify the issue, which I think has been done clearly for many years. We can articulate in words and identify what some of the challenges are, which has been done through many studies, conferences, forums, reports, and so on. What we're saying is that now is the time to perform actions.

I can give you a good example of actions. I come from an industry of broadcasting that was predominantly male-controlled. Through the action of some very insightful leaders, who happened to be women, they decided this was not acceptable. So we created an organization called Canadian Women in Communications.

But we also asked the industry, why is it that women aren't participating more fully? They said because of the limited number of qualified women available. So that organization created apprenticeship programs, scholarships, etc., to address the exact challenge.

They also said it's a matter of training and experience and enabling them to participate in non-traditional roles. So there was a program set up to address this and make sure there were enough qualified women capable of taking on some non-traditional roles.

So the organization was able to identify the most meaningful ways to directly increase the participation of women in broadcasting. If you look at that industry today, they've done this without any government funding. If you look at it today, we have women who are the heads and the leaders of broadcast services, of broadcast industries. We have senior women in the telephony industry. To me, this is real action: identify what the problem is and then put into place measures that will help women. And they didn't do this from one central source—

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Yes, but is advocacy...

[Bev Oda, Conservative, Durham, ON]

—they did it from nine to 12 chapters across this country.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

I understand. I'll repeat my question, because I see you have just put on your headset. Are advocacy and defence of women rights action or nothing but words? I'll make it even simpler for you. Do you see advocacy in defending one's right to free choice, equality or equity as actions, or nothing but words?

[Bev Oda, Conservative, Durham, ON]

As I said, there are fundamental rights that we all share, believe in. We are part of a democratic country; we have the Charter of Rights, which says everyone is equal. And it's those words, “to defend one's rights”.... I think each one of us does that. We make sure we can stand up for ourselves. Those of us who maybe have had more opportunity have to stand up in each of our roles separately, and each of us has differing levels of ability to do that.

I think what we want to make sure is that women across this country—whether it's speaking on behalf of their children at a school board meeting or going to their volunteer organization and speaking up, or voting as a citizen.... What I think we're talking about is that if we empower more women in all different ways—economically in their ability to have good jobs, and in their ability to participate more in their communities and within their professions—that is how we're going to ensure that we can help each other. It's not just speaking about their rights and telling them they have rights.