Evidence of meeting #21 for Status of Women in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was industry.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Ex-Coordinator, International Secretariat, Concertation des luttes contre l'exploitation sexuelle
Which means that it's a non-choice.
Bloc
Ex-Coordinator, International Secretariat, Concertation des luttes contre l'exploitation sexuelle
You have to choose between dying an having something to eat.
This is the case in some parts of Africa in particular. I was recently reading that in South Africa, women prostitute themselves for a meal. You can call that a job if you like, but the reality is that if they are to eat, the only thing on offer is to give a man a blow-job. She doesn't know whether the man in question is going to kill her just for the fun of it, or beat her, but she hopes to be able to eat her next meal.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
Thank you very much, Ms. Mourani.
I have to tell you that we still have some committee business. We really need much more time, and I don't know how we're going to do that.
I ask all of you, if you want to give us some additional comments, you could give them to the clerk, and the clerk will ensure that they're circulated to all of the committee. We would really appreciate it. I think you've heard the tenor of our discussion and debate today, and anything you can do to give us additional assistance, we would appreciate. The analysts may end up contacting you as we move forward to try to get an interim report in before Christmas.
Ms. Smith.
Conservative
Joy Smith Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
Madam Chair, could I make a suggestion and just throw it out to the committee? We have such credible witnesses here today. I was wondering if we could do the motion at the next meeting and have the next 12 minutes. Could we continue to question our guests?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
The committee agrees to giving one more person an opportunity for questions? All right.
Who do we have next on the list then?
Okay. Did you want to finish answering that question, since everybody wanted to comment? That would be the best use of our time.
Ms. Soltys.
Coordinator, Help Us Help The Children
I'll just mention three things that Ms. Mourani brought up.
The first is about prostitution as a career. Let's get real. I have two children, and a lot of you probably have children. Do you want to walk into your high school for career night and have prostitution listed as a career choice? In my opinion, that's not even a choice.
Secondly, there is the poverty issue. Ms. Matte mentioned the women who enter into it willingly, literally to survive. That is one issue.
Then there is the aspect of those who are coming across the border. Maybe they have an inkling of what they'll be doing; maybe they knowingly come here because they know they'll be doing prostitution, but once they get here, it's the conditions they are working in: they may come here under the impression that they will be free to come and go as they please, when in fact they're enslaved, their documents are taken, they're servicing x number of clients per night, seven days a week, whether they're menstruating or not, whether they're sick or not. That's another aspect of the whole issue we need to look at.
The other thing that really bothers me is the legalization issue. You can look at reports on countries where prostitution has been legalized—for example, Holland. The brothels get this stamp of approval, like those restaurant certificates we have here, saying yes, this place is okay. But the law enforcers in Holland themselves have written reports saying, we can't keep up with it; we don't know whether it has stemmed the influx of trafficked women or not.
It's our belief that legalization actually opens the floodgates for trafficking, because we don't have the capacity to control it or follow up on it.
Thanks.
Doctorand in Philosophy, University of Sherbrooke, Concertation des luttes contre l'exploitation sexuelle
I simply want to add a word about the issue of choice. In fact, the various options need to be considered when one makes a choice.
All you need to do is read the newspapers. The number of advertisements for escort agencies, exotic dancers and this whole environment is often disproportionate compared to the other worthy and normal jobs. What then are the choices available to a young woman who, for example, does not have much education? There are not many. A young woman who has no education has few employment opportunities. This aspect needs to be examined and we need to stop saying that it's her choice and that she is really doing it because she wants to.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
Mr. Stanton had a quick question he wanted to get in. That will be the last.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
I'm sorry. If the committee wants to follow exact process, it would be Ms. Mathyssen and then Mr. Stanton.
Ms. Mathyssen, did you have a question?
NDP
Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON
Yes, thank you.
I'll start with Ms. Crawford, but this is certainly something I'd appreciate hearing about from everyone.
We've been conducting this study on human trafficking for many weeks, and we've heard from a variety of witnesses. One of the recurring themes seems to be the commodification and objectification of women and young girls. Witnesses have actually suggested that we need to make it socially unacceptable to objectify women and girls, to treat them as sexual objects.
Could you comment on the sense that the modelling industry does indeed objectify and sexualize women, portraying them as objects to be bought and consumed?
Panache Model and Talent Management
I would never disagree with that; however, I would disagree that it's the modelling agents and the modelling industry. It's supply and demand. It's the people buying the magazines. It's the consumers who have bought into this image. Modelling agents don't have that much power. They don't control fashion editorials; they don't control what you see in commercials or in advertising or on the runway. That's not them.
You're looking at advertising, you're looking at designers, you're looking at fashion magazines. They are the ones who are objectifying women. I wouldn't say it's modelling agencies. It's the fashion industry, so it goes beyond the modelling industry.
Panache Model and Talent Management
Some media, and designers, and yes, everybody who works in the fashion industry. The modelling agencies and the modelling industry provide a product, that being, obviously, models.
Coordinator, Help Us Help The Children
I can answer very quickly. There are so many cultures involved in the trafficking scenario. All these women come from really totally different climates, when it comes to objectification of women, from covering our faces to.... There are various aspects of it. It's difficult to make a blanket statement, but it definitely does exist.
I can say that in Ukraine, a country that's struggling with democracy, where they're just starting to realize all the comforts of the material world, it's a strong influence. We did gender studies with the kids. We asked them to make a collage of the ideal woman and a collage of the ideal man. The collage of the ideal woman had perfume, a vacuum cleaner, a family, a dog, and a track suit. The man had the car, the job, the power, and so on. We realized this is a big issue. I know it exists to different extents in all of our cultures.
Ex-Coordinator, International Secretariat, Concertation des luttes contre l'exploitation sexuelle
As I mentioned at the beginning of my presentation, I feel that the issue of the commodification of women's bodies is probably one of the most important issues for women's groups everywhere in the world.
I also believe that it is related to a debate that was never successfully resolved in the 1980s, which is to say pornography, the use of women's bodies, our sexuality, a sexuality that is specific to women, etc.
At the moment, what we see is mainly the imposition of a male model of sexuality, a model in which women are there to serve men in general. In such circumstances, the search for beauty and the perfect body has become all important, at least in the Western countries and in the countries of the South, where more and more women are getting into debt.
In Brazil, plastic surgery is the main cause of indebtedness among women. Women go into debt in order to live up to the ideal model of big-breasted women. In some countries of the South, it is being as white as possible, and hence bleaching the skin is very fashionable.
Look at all the diets people are on and the value placed on a bodies that meet the standards of male desire. In a neo-liberal society, industry and the marketplace are considered all powerful. We need to question what lies behind it, to question industry. At the moment, traffickers are benefiting from the increased commodification of women's bodies.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
To our witnesses, thank you for your time, your energy, and for caring about some very important issues. You've given us a huge amount of information and assistance.
The meeting is adjourned.
