Status of Women Committee on Feb. 1st, 2007

[Bev Oda, Conservative, Durham, ON]

The budget for 2007-08 has not yet been tabled.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

It's to come?

[Bev Oda, Conservative, Durham, ON]

As you know, the Minister of Finance is planning a budget and will be tabling his budget shortly.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

All right. We'll be very interested in seeing that.

In terms of the savings that were identified in SWC, what consultations took place to identify those savings? With whom did you speak?

[Bev Oda, Conservative, Durham, ON]

I'm going to ask Ms. Ievers to outline for you the process that was undertaken as well as the principles on which the process was undertaken.

[Florence Ievers, Coordinator, Status of Women Canada]

Thank you, Minister.

Status of Women Canada had undertaken cross-country consultations with a number of women's groups, equality-seeking groups and individuals in 2005. We had also undertaken a review of the governance of Status of Women Canada, with a number of phases in that initiative. At first we looked at how we were organized and how we could do better. We had two other phases we were about to undertake when the government decided we needed to look at more efficiencies in the department. Those were to look at the research entity of Status of Women, as well as the regional operations of the women's program.

The principles that guided us in doing our work included reviewing the key operations of the organization, assessing and adjusting the current mandates of policy, research and GBA, as well as the women's program and regional operations. As well, we looked at corporate services. We identified key objectives to be pursued, assessed a number of options, and consolidated human and financial resources to make them more efficient.

The basis on which we did the review was that we were focused on ensuring the integrity and the coherence of our core functions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

That brings us to the end.

We will go to round two, five minutes each.

We'll start off with Ms. Brown.

[Bonnie Brown, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you, Madam Minister.

Madam Minister, you said you'd like us to work in a non-partisan way, but in your own remarks, of which we have a copy in front of us, your choice of words and phrases demonstrates to me that you view the world through a very different lens than I do, and a very different lens from the women in my constituency.

I'll just give you an example. I met with them about a week ago, and they said they were dismayed about the removal of the word “equality”. They don't even think the word “equality” is good enough. They say, first of all, that equality of opportunity is the lowest benchmark—and that's what you chose to talk about. Real equality, effective equality, is something quite different, and a much higher standard. They want effective equality—in other words, programs that take them from where they are below zero and move them up to have effective equality with the opposite sex. Your lens and your words are quite different.

Describing the individual projects with such pride, as you do, is very interesting. It's an interesting time filler, but it does not address the broad policy and advocacy role that Canadian women want and look to you for leadership on. So I have a few questions for you.

Regarding that Vancouver trial, which you chose to define in terms of justice issues, have you asked the Minister of Health, for example, to define addiction as a health issue? Have you asked him to set aside money for detox, treatment, rehab, and after-care for those poor women who can never be returned to life, even if Robert Pickton is convicted of all those murders? Have you asked the Minister of Health for dollars? Have you pushed for dollars? Have you asked the Minister of HRSD for dollars to make sure we get those child care spaces, seeing that the money was given away in cheques to individual families?

I'm surprised by your latter remarks where you ask what we can do to help women recognize the cycle of abuse and how we can help them to get out of these situations, etc. There are people on the ground who have the answers to those questions. You don't need to ask them how we can do it. If you interacted sufficiently with people in the domestic violence business—and I don't mean the police, but the women's groups—they would tell you how to do it, how to have more effect. I can tell you, it takes more money than we're spending now, not less.

Are you pushing your cabinet colleagues to make sure that all their programs are seen through the lens of gender equality and that sufficient dollars are allocated by each and every one of them to take care of the problems? You can't do it alone; I understand that. But it seems to me that you're giving money away and losing the advocacy role whereby women in Canada would help you do your job with your cabinet colleagues, as opposed to weakening your department so that you're standing alone trying to do this.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[Bev Oda, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Thank you for your question.

I don't suppose I'm standing alone. First of all, I respect a diversity of viewpoints. I certainly have heard from my constituents, and I've had submissions given to me individually from all constituencies, across all ridings, as well as from my colleagues. There is a diversity of viewpoints and a diversity of approaches.

What we're tasked with, as a government, is to try to be effective in meeting the needs of Canadian citizens. I would suggest to you that in every case, this government, as I've said to you, does consider and, as an integral part of its considerations, deliberations, etc., on every initiative it takes, does not exclude the consideration of women. In fact it is very sensitive to the inclusion of the consideration of the impact on women and the effects that it will have on women in a positive manner.

In my discussions with advocacy groups, I have invited them to meet with...and I've invited to bring ministers together to meet with them, whether it's the Minister of Health, Minister of Justice, or Minister of Human Resources. Every one of my colleagues understands, and they are willing to meet with those groups, to hear from them.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Please wrap up. Thank you.

[Bev Oda, Conservative, Durham, ON]

I would say to you that we have taken...and it's heartily supported. The responsibility is there from every minister in their area.

To pay people to support me, that's not necessarily the approach I choose to take. I choose to take the approach that the support will come because we're doing the right thing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Thank you.

The next person is Mr. Stanton, for five minutes.

[Bruce Stanton, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for joining us this afternoon.

Minister, in the course of our hearings with respect to the new terms and conditions for Status of Women Canada, in particular the women's program, we've had several questions that focus on the new terms we're bringing in. In particular, I note a priority given to aboriginal women, immigrant women, visible minority women, and senior women. Does this in fact mean that would be the only focus of successful applications under the women's program?

I wonder if you could comment on what that really means and what kind of focus this brings to the women's program.

[Bev Oda, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Thank you for your question.

I think when we indicate a focus we indicate we've identified them as areas where in studies, research, and internationally, we've been identified as not doing enough, etc. When we're saying there's a focus there, it is not to the exclusion of any organization that is advancing the opportunities for women in their communities.

The other thing to remember, too, is the economic security. There are many avenues by which an organization can support women in the community. We're saying that project, that focus would encompass everything that has an influence on economic security. With respect to domestic violence, as you can appreciate, there are many factors that contribute to domestic violence, so there's a wide range of activities and programs that could be undertaken to address that challenge.

[Bruce Stanton, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

One other item that came up in the course of our hearings, again, especially looking at the changes to Status of Women Canada, was a question about the policy research fund. There were some suggestions that this is no longer part of the mandate or capacity within Status of Women Canada. I wonder if you could give us an update on where that policy research fund really stands.

[Bev Oda, Conservative, Durham, ON]

The policy research fund as a subsection of the Status of Women general operating has been altered. That doesn't mean there are no plans or opportunity for the Status of Women to undertake research. It does mean that Status of Women has restructured itself and is developing an internal capacity to identify meaningful research--research that is identified as having to be done. Consequently, there is a capacity for research, but it is going to be managed and focused for specific purposes that will show results and that will help the Status of Women and the government in its work.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

You have one and a half minutes left.

[Bruce Stanton, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Finally, Minister, you've said on several occasions—and you alluded to it in one of your answers earlier this afternoon—that it's not just the responsibility of this committee, Status of Women Canada, that we shouldn't be the sole proponent of women's issues in the course of the responsibilities of a government. You said this is a responsibility that needs to be carried across all departments and across all the political spectrum that we see.

Could you give us a little enlightenment on what you really mean by that?

[Bev Oda, Conservative, Durham, ON]

I know that the Minister of Indian and Northern Affairs, for example, has many consultations with aboriginal women's groups and organizations to ensure that the programs and his legislation, the actions that he takes, are sensitive to women. In fact, if you look at some of the agreements that have been signed recently, he has been very successful after a long time of not going forward in signing agreements. He has been very successful ensuring that the situation for aboriginal women on reserves is going to be addressed. He is committed to an increase in shelters for women under his responsibility. He has also ensured that the children, etc., are going to have access to education.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Thank you, Minister.

I have to be fair to everybody, because everybody has to speak.

Madame Deschamps, pour cinq minutes.

[Johanne Deschamps, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Welcome, Ms. Oda. Thank you for accepting our invitation to join us, Ms. Ievers.

I listened to my colleagues' comments. We probably are not all on the same page when it comes to recognizing the equality of men and women. In my view, it's more of an impression that we want to give. A statement like the one made by Ms. Smith doesn't truly reflect the current situation.

Certainly we have heard from several women's groups. As you know, we scheduled two meetings during the last session to meet with women and get their reaction to the recent changes to the funding of the Women's Program. Some reported that they were quite satisfied, but the vast majority of the women we heard from were very concerned about the changes announced. That also concerns me a great deal.

I represent the riding of Laurentides--Labelle in a Quebec region located to the north of Montreal. I listened to the comments of my Conservative colleagues. I don't think of my riding as being located in the Third World, but the region is grappling with some serious problems linked to a tenuous economy. When the softwood lumber crisis hit, all five sawmills were forced to shut down. SItuations like these often lead to family crises and even breakups. Many women are on their own and dealing with family responsibilities.

Sadder still is the fact that often these women have seasonal jobs which disqualify them from the current EI regime. We have made representations to the minister about this very issue and we have tried to make him aware of the situation. This is just another example of the inequities that exist.

Madam, do you really believe that men and women are truly equal today?

[Bev Oda, Conservative, Durham, ON]

I think we can be very constructive if we recognize, as I said, that there are challenges. We recognize that improvements have to be made, so regarding some of the situations you've pointed out, there may be, in every level of government, programs that have to be reviewed. That's why we've supported the gender analysis work that this committee has done in the past. That's why we've supported the strengthening in every department to look at gender analysis. That's why we've maintained the ability of Status of Women Canada to give advice to every department in their work on gender analysis. I think the work that's being done there--and I would suggest that the specific issues that have been brought up, that gender analysis support that we provide to status of women that's still there--will help in the deliberations on those issues.

I would just say to you, regarding your own riding, very similarly, we would welcome.... I'm sure you have an organization in your riding similar to organizations in other ridings. From the Maritimes we've had inquiries from places where the fishing industry has had a great downslide. The women in those communities are taking up the slack and addressing the need for more resources. We're looking at a program being put forward by an organization to help women start up small businesses. As you know, the former Minister of Human Resources and Social Development introduced a pilot project in New Brunswick to help women upgrade their skills. I'd welcome any organization from any riding that would like to apply for projects such as that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Thank you, Minister.

We'll now go to Ms. Mathyssen.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'd like to pursue my question in regard to the cost savings, because of course that is what led to the closing of the regional offices.

We heard testimony from your own staff here in the spring that the regional offices provide an important resource for the ministry; that they dialogue with the local organizations; that they make connections with provincial and territorial counterparts; that they attend interdepartmental committees and provide advice. In fact, in my own riding of London—Fanshawe, I have worked with the London Abused Women's Centre, and they have indicated that the concrete and very important work they did to address violence against women in my community would not have been possible without the work of the regional offices.

So in losing them, we've lost a great deal. How many people in SWC were laid off, and how on earth will you be able to deliver the mandate--equality for women--with the loss of these incredibly creative and dedicated people, some of them with many years of experience?

[Bev Oda, Conservative, Durham, ON]

First of all, this government, because it wants to make sure that it's using taxpayers' dollars responsibly, didn't necessarily start with the number of people. We looked at the core responsibilities now being given to Status of Women under the new terms and conditions and under a renewed approach. We then looked at how we could provide the necessary services efficiently and ensure that the programs will be run, operated, and administered efficiently.

In answer to your question on specific numbers, there are now a total of 70 staff available throughout the regions and within the Status of Women. The offices, as you know, have been reduced to four, located in Edmonton, Montreal, Moncton, and Ottawa.