Status of Women Committee on Feb. 15th, 2007

[Sylvie Michaud]

We have gathered data on the financial security of families. However, it is difficult to define financial security, i.e. every family member's fair share, when a couple is living together. The characteristics of job, work and pension plans are classified according to gender. Ms. Townson said that women had less pension coverage than men. Now, the coverage has increased for women and decreased for men, so that in 2005, it was nearly the same, namely 40%. There are wide gaps in some sectors. In the service industry, for instance, women get less pension coverage. These groups need our special attention.

Moreover, there is a problem with the size of the sample. We wanted to study people aged 75 and over, but with our budget, we could only afford a sample size of 9,000 persons. Regarding the other attached groups, I mentioned three of them: those less than 45 years old, those aged is between 45 and 64, and those who are over 65. This is as far as we could go with our gender-based analysis.

[Leroy Stone]

The book has four major themes. One of them is women and family. In the section that deals with vulnerable populations, we have one of Monica's works, which has a major focus on women.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you.

I want to go back to rural women and the unique challenges they face. Has StatsCan done any research in regard to these women and the situation in rural communities?

[Colin Lindsay]

I know there have been a couple of major reports on rural Canada, but certainly we have not done anything along the target groups. It's one we've lobbied for. We've done a whole bunch of publications--aboriginal people, immigrants, and groups of that nature. I don't really believe we've done a whole lot of significant work in that area, and it's probably something that should be done.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Thank you.

Monsieur Petit.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you.

Good afternoon, and thank you for appearing before us today. My question is specifically addressed to Statistics Canada, either to Mr. Lindsay or Ms. Michaud.

I am from the justice committee where we are trying to protect elderly women from things like home invasions. We are trying to produce some very severe legislation. Of course, it is not an easy thing to do.

Mr. Lindsay, the provinces and territories must cooperate with you so that you can see the entire picture and provide answers. No doubt, you know that a vote was held yesterday in the House of Commons and that the Bloc Québécois voted against Statistics Canada by voting against the idea of providing you with information about patients with malignant tumours. The Liberals and the NDP voted along with us in favour of this measure. I think that this is an important point.

You said that Statistics Canada needs help from the other provinces. How will you go about gathering the information that you need? Will you be going to the human resource departments in Quebec and in the territories? Does Quebec have a counterpart to Statistics Canada?

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Order.

Monsieur Petit, this is a section dealing with economic security for senior women. Can we focus on the question, please, rather than blocking anybody? If you have a specific question regarding income security for senior women, I'd really appreciate it.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

I had to put this question, Madam Chair.

You tabled a plan that deals with net worth. Either common law or civil law is effective in 10 provinces. In my province, we have civil law. Under civil law, estates are divided into two parts, whether we are dealing with people who were married or separated couples, and that includes pension funds. The Quebec Pension Plan splits the fund into two parts in cases like divorce, death, etc. At the federal level, the Canada Pensions Plan applies and things are different.

You discussed the statistics regarding people aged 60 and over. You mentioned the life cycle of net worth. I asked you where you obtained your information. I would also like to know whether you took into account the fact that Quebec's civil law has an entirely different system. Civil law provides that after the age of 60, a man or a woman can obtain a half of the estate of the other person, regardless of whether he or she has worked. Have you considered these specific points?

[Sylvie Michaud]

The short answer is no. For this reason, we did this on an economic family basis. You can see that wealth is reported as net worth, namely at the economic family level. As for unattached persons, the statistics below pertain to people who are not part of an economic family. These may be people who are still single or who are separated. We have indicated the status of people by gender, in other words by sex.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

All right. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

You have one minute remaining.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

If I understand correctly, you have taken an overall approach in this report, which is designed to help us. Is that correct?

[Sylvie Michaud]

The green line represents economic families. If the family is a couple, that represents the net worth of the couple's wealth.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

When you talk about men or women who are not living in a family, these would be, for example, individuals who are separated, divorced, etc.

[Sylvie Michaud]

These are individuals who live alone or individuals who live together without being married.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

We'll go to Ms. Stronach for five minutes.

[Belinda Stronach, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you for joining us today.

Several of you have touched on the need for a national caregiver agenda, given that we have an aging population and, as Mr. Lindsay pointed out in his example, daughters have increased responsibility. Hopefully my son will take some increased responsibility as I age as well.

Perhaps you can touch on some of the data that expresses the need for it. What elements would be incorporated into good policy to develop a national caregiver agenda?

[Colin Lindsay]

We can give you a few numbers. I don't have a whole lot off the top of my head.

Again, 70% of senior women over the age of 85 have disabilities. We've broken that down and asked people in that age group what kind of support they need. As many as 25% or 30% are saying they need help with simple things, like getting their groceries into their home, or that they are having trouble with things like managing their books. Modern technology, to these people, is very difficult. We live in a world of Internet and ATMs, and for people who are not experienced with those kinds of things, they are almost frightening to some of them.

I can send you the list of the specific numbers, but you're finding 20%, 25%, 30% of people in that age range having problems with those kinds of activities.

[Monica Townson]

Maybe I can add something to that. There's an extensive body of literature on caregivers, particularly the work of Janet Fast at the University of Alberta, in which she documents, using data from Statistics Canada, the impact on people who provide care to older people, including the fact that they often have to take early retirement, they have to reduce their paid working hours, they may have to take time off, they're not available for activities that could lead to promotions, and that kind of thing. So it does affect the timing of their own retirements and their ability to earn an income, and so on. There's a lot of information about that in studies that she has done, along with those by other people.

[Belinda Stronach, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

You said the name was Janet Fast?

[Monica Townson]

Janet Fast and Norah Keating, If you check on those, I think you'll find quite an extensive literature.

[Belinda Stronach, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Are there any countries that you can also point to as progressive examples, in which they've developed that kind of a caregiver strategy for those of the second generation who have to take time off work to look after their parents? Are there other countries that you know of that are doing well, that have a good strategy in place?

[Monica Townson]

I don't know enough about this area to be able to tell you that. I can perhaps tell you an anecdote that might amuse you or horrify you.

I was recently involved in a case involving the Charter of Rights, in which a woman had to take time out of paid employment to care for a disabled family member and was claiming that she should have a caregiving dropout from the CPP. Her claim was rejected by the appeals tribunal on the grounds that if they gave her a dropout, then people who volunteered for the boy scouts would also want one. The tribunal was apparently unable to distinguish between caring for a dependent human being and volunteering for the boy scouts, and the lawyers from the Department of Justice took the same approach.

[Belinda Stronach, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

That's very unfortunate.