Status of Women Committee on Feb. 15th, 2007

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

You still have one minute, Ms. Stronach.

[Belinda Stronach, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you very much.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

In terms of income security, I know that in Alberta they developed a program to protect seniors against fraud and against people quietly taking their money. Do you have any stats to show how prevalent that is, and do you know whether there's something in a pan-Canadian way we could do to help with that, in terms of seniors having their money taken?

[Colin Lindsay]

In two weeks, on February 27, there will be a new Stats Canada publication—I guess we can throw out a plug here—called A Portrait of Seniors in Canada. I did not work on that one. It's coming out in two weeks. I know they have some material on that. It should be available at that time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Thank you.

We will now go to Ms. Davidson for five minutes.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Okay, thank you, Madam Chair.

I have just a couple of quick of questions. I've heard a lot of information here today that I didn't expect to hear. I've heard maybe more encouraging information than I thought I would hear. I'm certainly glad that we've had all of you here to present, because I think it's certainly opened things up a bit more than I thought it was going to.

As we move forward with this study, we've heard that there needs to be a review of employment insurance, our public pension process, social assistance, legal aid, all of those things that would come into place. I've also heard that we need to be concentrating on the younger generation, so that when they become seniors there will be something in place for them. I've also heard a lot of talk about some of the maybe most disadvantaged or some of those who have the most challenges to overcome, whether that's single parents, immigrants, the disabled, aboriginal women, or those who would fall into that caregiver category, because of pension and time away from work issues.

I would ask anybody who would like to answer whether there are other areas that you think would be of high importance that we should be looking at beyond those things.

[Barbara Glover]

One thing I was thinking of has been central to what I was presenting. It really is education, the monumental change of the last generation. I know we talk about women entering the labour force, and it is that, but really it's education. If you go back and look at long, long, timeframes, in the sixties, seventies, eighties, and nineties, what changed over generations?

I was reading a study that reminded me that girls always did better than boys in high school, but they didn't go on to university. That was a change in attitude. Now we're reaping the benefits of women going to college, university, master's, and PhD. That is pretty critical to the changing labour market outcomes we're seeing.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Would you suggest studying educational trends, and what the challenges or obstacles might be?

[Barbara Glover]

It gets to the question of the gap. I know you've all been asking the question, what's going to happen to this gap in the future? I think you've heard different views of what might happen to the gap, but it's all crystal ball: we're all trying to imagine what attitudes will change, how people change, and what might change. What is generally accepted and generally agreed is that the major change that has affected women's outcome in the labour market really is educational attainment. If you're thinking about what's going to happen in the future, that is certainly an important starting point.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Does anybody else have anything?

[Monica Townson]

I was also going to say education, but from a different point of view, and maybe Madame Demers or one of the other members mentioned this. That is, about educating people and planning for the future.

Statistics Canada had a survey, which you may have heard about, where they looked at people and what they knew about pensions and pension plans. The knowledge that was demonstrated was absolutely abysmal with people who thought they had a pension plan at work and actually didn't, and people who didn't understand how the CPP or the OAS worked or whatever. That's true of both women and men. There's a desperate need to get that information out there somehow, and maybe this would be a recommendation this committee could make. That would be very helpful.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

You have half a minute if you want to make any comments.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

No, I'm done. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Thank you.

We're now going to Madame Demers, cinq minutes.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Lindsay or Ms. Townson, you referred earlier to women who had to return home in order to look after their family members. I believe that this has already begun.

I am part of what we refer to as the sandwich generation. There are two generations preceding us and two that follow us. Up until two years ago, I looked after my grandmother, who is 94 years old. I look after my mother, who is 78 years old. I have a hemophiliac son who is 36 years old and I have a 14-year-old grandson, who is in my custody. Women are always there, right?

The fact is that no mention is made about the silent women, the ones with no income, with no cheques and with no fixed address, and these are the ones who worry me the most. There is a growing number of these women in our large centres. Do you know how many women fall under this category now, how can we reach them and what we can do to help them become part of the workforce, in other words, the labour market? Have any studies on this issue been done?

It is appalling to see all these women in these situations. There are many aboriginal women, but also many other women who come from various backgrounds. Given the number of women who don't receive any cheques or income and have no access to a job, I think that the statistics on unemployment are really skewed. If there are a million poor children in Canada, it is because they have poor parents.

[Colin Lindsay]

From a purely statistical standpoint, it's something Statistics Canada has struggled with for years: how do you get to these people? Sylvie could probably talk about it a little bit more, because she runs a survey. Surveys are household-based to a large degree, and how do you get people who do not live in a household? It certainly is a very major problem.

[Sylvie Michaud]

In all honesty, we do not have very much information for this category.

If I could add another group, it would be women who live alone and are between 45 and 64 years of age. We really should pay some attention to this group. This is a group that has been identified by Human Resources and Social Development Canada. Following a separation, a woman who has been outside of the job market finds it very difficult to get back in. This may be a group where women are in vulnerable situations. Now, as to whether or not these women have housing or not, we do not have much information.

I believe that we are in the process of setting up a statistics program to try to examine the situation of aboriginal peoples, particularly those on reserves. In our survey on the workforce, we started looking for this information. As of next summer, we should be able to publish figures with respect to aboriginals.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

Thank you.

Ms. Townson or Ms. Glover, do you wish to respond?

[Monica Townson]

The only thing I would add to that, of course, is that people who are homeless, who don't have a permanent address, can't qualify for social assistance, so this is a huge problem. It's not my field of expertise, but I think that people at the municipal level, certainly in Toronto and in other big cities, are trying to tackle this, but it's a very difficult problem to deal with.

[Barbara Glover]

I just wanted to say on homelessness, neither Virginia nor I are experts in that area. There are people in our department; we do have a program, as you know, that was recently renewed. So I think on that, I'll just get what information we have, if that's okay, and pass that to the committee. Of course, you're absolutely right.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Glover.

Ms. Townson, how can we ensure that your report, which was to have been published in March but will not, will in fact be published?

[Monica Townson]

The terms of my contract state that if Status of Women Canada does not publish it, the rights revert to me, and I can find somebody else to publish it, so I'm in the process of trying to do that now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Madame Demers, merci.

We have the last question from Ms. Mathyssen.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'd like to give Ms. Townson the chance to answer the question that I asked before about rural women, because I'm very interested in what you had to say.

[Monica Townson]

It just so happens that I'm on the Statistics Canada advisory committee on social conditions. We had a meeting recently in which we were told that this division of Statistics Canada is actually doing quite a bit of work on rural communities now. This is kind of a new push. Maybe other people from StatsCan may be able to fill you in on this. I'm not sure if it's specifically with regard to women, but certainly there's growing interest in looking at rural communities from a statistical viewpoint.