Status of Women Committee on Oct. 22nd, 2009

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You're ten seconds over.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Okay, I'll be very quick.

In regard to the whole pay equity issue, I'm just wondering—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Yes, I'll let you go over time, because Ms. Zarac went over. Go ahead.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Okay, thank you.

Are you saying that if there's a man and a woman on the same job site, for example, both being electricians with equal qualifications, the same ticket, they would actually not be paid the same? Or are you talking about a woman doing one type of work and a man another, but it's of equal value?

[Hiromi Matsui]

Let me be clear and brief: I'm not saying every female electrician is paid 68 cents to the dollar compared with the male electrician's pay, but I'm saying there are lots of data and research studies showing that when you amalgamate the figures, collectively, yes, that's the case for work in the same job, basically.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

For those with the same qualifications?

[Hiromi Matsui]

Oh, yes.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Okay, thank you very much.

[Hiromi Matsui]

It always amazes me that these reports keep coming out and very little happens.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Madame Demers.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you very much, ladies, for coming here. I must say, Ms. Matsui, that I was deeply touched by your remarks and that I find you very inspiring.

You spoke a lot of the women that you meet in the course of your work. For once, I do agree with my colleague. We are rarely in agreement, but I think that she is right to say that role models are needed and that these women could serve as good role models for girls. We know very well that before Julie Payette became an astronaut, there were no female astronauts in Quebec, there were none who wanted to become an astronaut nor any little girl who dreamt of becoming one. I think that when we can present images of women other than sitting behind a typewriter, we shall see young women in these fields.

I wonder if a good way to promote these occupations would be to give more visibility to these women. I wonder if to ensure equal pay in Quebec, the government should not impose penalties to businesses that do not respect pay equity rules. We know that money is an important consideration. Would it not be a way to make sure that businesses revised their pay equity policies and that women get what they rightly deserve?

Before you answer my question, I would like to share something with you. You talk a lot about dreams. Last week, I heard someone say something that deeply touched me and I would like to share that with you.

Rosa Parks sat so Martin Luther King could walk. Martin Luther King walked so Barack Obama could run. Barack Obama ran so our children can fly.

I think that it is exactly like your dreams. Do not stop dreaming, we need people like you, Ms. Matsui.

Thank you very much.

[Hiromi Matsui]

Well, thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

After that profound statement, Madame Demers, you still have three minutes.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

Well, she has to give me an answer.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Okay. All right.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

I'm glad she has three minutes to answer.

[Hiromi Matsui]

Merci beaucoup. Thank you very much for your kind words.

You suggest a fine for companies or individuals who do not comply. The trouble with that kind of approach, of course, is that there will be push-back, resentment, and anger, so you have to think very carefully before implementing that kind of strategy. I believe much more in the iron fist in the velvet glove, if you will—and if you can, being positive.

Yes, Julie Payette is a wonderful role model. We applaud her and follow her adventures, her journeys, with great interest. Certainly we could do much, much more to improve information for teachers and counsellors about the benefits of working in trades for both women and men.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

Ms. Matsui, you spoke also of a gulf between principles and policies. When you come to Ottawa you say you are always surprised. Could you elaborate more on this?

[Hiromi Matsui]

I don't think I can do that in three minutes, I'm sorry. I work in a university, where we're quite idealistic. But in my CCWEST role, I do work with women at the grassroots who are carpenters and welders, and I do hear their experiences and I have shared some of them with you today. I know what the human rights legislation states, and I think people like us who experience life in Canada know there is a big gulf between practice and principle.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

But do you believe, when you come here, that we can really make a difference? Do you think that we mean it when we say that we want to change things?

[Hiromi Matsui]

I think you are honest. I think the challenges are huge, and I appreciate your response: it's very positive, it's very encouraging. It made me glad that I flew over the Rockies last night to come here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

There is still 15 seconds left, if anyone wants to add something to that.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

Ms. Ducharme, could you speak about the ways in which we could promote young women who choose to do something other than traditional work?

[Patty Ducharme]

I think it's critical that we let young women know they can do absolutely anything they want to do. One good way we could do that is by electing more women members of Parliament. I think that when we see Parliament with 40% women parliamentarians, we'll see a very different Canada.