Evidence of meeting #46 for Status of Women in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was enforcement.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Bob Usui  Inspector, Special Investigation Section, Vancouver Police Department
Barry MacKillop  Director General, Law Enforcement and Border Strategies Directorate, Department of Public Safety
Michel Aubin  Director, Federal and International Operations, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Ken Lamontagne  Director, Intelligence Risk Assessment and Analysis Division, Enforcement Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
Paul Desautels  Director, Operational Management Coordination, Temporary Resident Program Delivery, Department of Citizenship and Immigration Canada
Marie-Claude Arsenault  Non-Commissioned Officer, Human Trafficking National Coordination Centre, Royal Canadian Mounted Police

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON

Finally, I'm wondering how the RCMP distinguishes between prostitution and domestic human trafficking for the purposes of sexual exploitation. Very clearly, in terms of human trafficking there's a profound sense of victimization, where with prostitution it may well be someone who has decided to pursue the sex trade.

4:30 p.m.

Supt Michel Aubin

I want to make sure I understood your question. It's how do we differentiate between prostitution and human trafficking?

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON

Yes.

4:30 p.m.

Supt Michel Aubin

The definition we rely upon is the definition in the Criminal Code. So we accept that there are women out there who will commit themselves to prostitution. When we're talking about human trafficking, there have to be elements of coercion, and there are elements of control, which take many forms. That is the difference. They're victims.

As my colleague from the Vancouver police alluded, in a number of cases when these individuals are from abroad and we are trying to get their collaboration to provide the police and the courts with that evidence, they're not willing to cooperate; they just prefer to return to their home country. But that is where we make the distinction of whether there is a form of control, a form of coercion, meaning they are no longer doing it wittingly but are doing it unwittingly.

Sometimes those forms of control and coercion are not necessarily evident at first blush. You have to really look at it. The victims may not even recognize themselves as victims in the first instance. So the purpose of law enforcement through investigations, whether undercover operations or more complex investigations, is to try to bring out that evidence.

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON

So I take it that would require experience and real sensitivity, when speaking to an individual, to pick up the signs and to get the signals in regard to victimization.

4:30 p.m.

Supt Michel Aubin

The purpose of the awareness sessions and the workshops is to bring that to the attention of law enforcement, so they can recognize that there are signs they have to go after and so they will not take things at first blush but will look for those pieces of evidence. But you also have to try to get that from the victims, where possible.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair (Ms. Candice Hoeppner) Conservative Candice Bergen

You have another 10 to 15 seconds. Is there anything you want to add?

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON

I was interested in the statement about engaging the hospitality and construction industry in terms of their understanding of human trafficking. When I first read that, I thought there would be this effort to engage them to watch out for it, to prevent it. But now I'm wondering--because these are people who are coming from outside as sponsors or vendors--whether these are the people who may be looking for sexual favours. Are these the people who might be victimizing young women who are at the Olympics for the purposes of trafficking?

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair (Ms. Candice Hoeppner) Conservative Candice Bergen

Ms. Mathyssen, you're pretty well out of time, so perhaps Mr. Desautels could answer that very quickly.

4:35 p.m.

Director, Operational Management Coordination, Temporary Resident Program Delivery, Department of Citizenship and Immigration Canada

Paul Desautels

Yes, it is possible it could be the same individuals, but the point of our reaching out to those organizations is to have a conversation with them and make them aware of the signs. We can talk to the associations that these various organizations work through so that, wherever possible, we can raise awareness of the program.

4:35 p.m.

NDP

Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON

Good.

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair (Ms. Candice Hoeppner) Conservative Candice Bergen

Thank you very much.

I'd like to thank each of the witnesses for being here today.

We will suspend right now and clear the room, and then we'll go in camera.

Thank you.

[Proceedings continue in camera]