Status of Women Committee on March 10th, 2009

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I stand corrected, Ms. Spencer.

[Lucya Spencer]

Good.

It is a privilege to be here with you this morning. As you've heard, I'm representing the Ontario Council of Agencies Serving Immigrants, located in Toronto. Unfortunately, no one could get here quickly, so here I am, and I'll try to represent them as best as I can.

The Ontario Council of Agencies Serving Immigrants is an autonomous umbrella body that has been around since 1978. This organization is made up of 177 agencies across Ontario. Many of these agencies provide services to immigrants and visible minority individuals, and the agency has acted as a collective voice for the sector for more 30 years.

To address the particular issue before us, what we have found and what I'm presenting here is based on information that we have gathered from our member agencies.

The biggest challenges that OCASI member agencies encounter in assisting immigrants and refugees to settle and integrate are labour market integration and income security. These two are not unconnected. A stable job and a liveable income are critically important to effective settlement and integration.

Equally important is adequate and effective recourse, in the event someone becomes unemployed, or loses access to a liveable income obtained through other means, such as family sponsorship.

OCASI member agencies are particularly concerned about the experience of immigrant and refugee women, particularly women from racialized communities, because these women are significantly disadvantaged in the labour market and in accessing services and whatever recourse they might have when things just don't work out.

The Colour of Poverty campaign is a campaign of a group of individuals and organizations in Ontario who have been addressing the issue of poverty over the last year or two. OCASI is a founding member of that organization and a part of the leadership, and it has done extensive research supporting the findings of OCASI member agencies.

The Colour of Poverty income fact sheet describes the situation that immigrant and refugee women, particular those from racialized communities, face in the labour market. According to the Colour of Poverty fact sheet, a growing number of immigrants and women “are employed in part-time and unstable work. This means they do not have employment insurance, even though they pay into the EI fund”.

Statistics Canada has documented the existence of the troubling income gap between men and women in Canada. It has also documented the growing income gap between racialized and non-racialized residents of Canada. Citing census data from Statistics Canada, the National Working Group on Women and Housing reports that “35% of all women who immigrated to Canada between 1991 and 2000 live in poverty and 37% of all racialized women live in poverty.

In our country, economic restructuring has impacted many women. Even those who are highly skilled and well educated have found themselves accepting part-time or contract work just to survive. Immigrants, particularly women and women from racialized communities, are over-represented in contingent work. The rise of contingent work and the growing presence of the most disadvantaged workers in this sector is widely documented. Immigrants and refugees experience massive systemic barriers to labour market integration, including racism and discrimination. Contingent work, most often work obtained through a temporary help agency, presents a practical but harsh option to become and remain employed.

OCASI member agencies have said that most clients get their first jobs in Canada through temporary agencies. Clients remain in temp work for many years, often up to and beyond ten years. Often they work at more than one job at the same time. They are rarely employed in a job that allows them to use their skills and qualifications, particularly those that made them desirable candidates for immigration to Canada, which results in them becoming what we call de-skilled immigrants.

Most immigrants, including immigrant women, pay EI premiums. Many clients have said that the premium is deducted from the cheque by the temporary agency or other employers. However, given the contingent nature of the work--temporary, part-time, on-call, or piece work, just to mention a few--most immigrants, and most immigrant women, who are overrespresented in these types of work situations, rarely, if ever, qualify for employment insurance benefits.

A report released by the Canadian Labour Congress about six years ago indicated that in Canada we're seeing a drop in EI benefits to Canadian women. In Ontario, only 27% of workers qualify for employment insurance. The other 73% cannot access benefits in the event of job loss or for maternity, parental, or compassionate leave. It is deeply troubling that the majority of immigrant women who pay into the EI fund cannot access benefits. Neither can they access training opportunities that are tied to EI eligibility.

So what is the current and future impact on immigrant and refugee women? “Time For A Fair Deal”, a report of the task force for modernizing income security for working-age adults, highlights the fact that income security in Ontario does not work due to the fact that there have not been fundamental changes to it since the 1960s. Immigrant women who have paid into EI but don't qualify have no recourse other than our increasingly tattered social safety net. Sponsored immigrants who turn to social assistance face serious consequences that can impact on the sponsor. Specifically, there may be a demand from the government to repay benefits, or they could be barred from the possibility of future sponsorship undertaken, even after the individual's economic situation has improved.

In the absence of any form of meaningful skills-training opportunities that would lead to labour market reintegration, the lack of access to EI-funded training has a particularly harsh impact on immigrant women. These systemic barriers are severely disadvantaging immigrant women, locating them and their families forever in a subordinate position. The impact is particularly harsh on lone parent households and will be felt by more than one generation in that family.

The lack of a safety net for sole-parenting immigrant women means a lack of access to adequate housing, post-secondary education, health benefits, and full security for them and their dependents. In the case of elder care, this can mean lack of services that help to maintain health and well-being. In the case of the children, it could mean lack of funds for child care, extracurricular paid recreational activities, or post-secondary education.

These realities are especially alarming now, when we are in the midst of a recession. We need the federal government to act immediately to fix the EI program but also to invest in measures that would include labour market integration opportunities for immigrant women and would provide income security, if not improve income security.

In June 2006, the Standing Committee on the Status of Women released its report entitled “Improving the Economic Security of Women: Time to Act”. In this report, they presented 21 recommendations to the government. I would just like to pause at this moment to highlight two of those recommendations, recommendations 13 and 15. Recommendation 13 states:

The Committee recommends that the federal government change the eligibility criteria under the Employment Insurance Act to increase access to benefits to persons in part-time or part-year work.

Recommendation 15 states:

The Committee recommends that the federal government amend the Employment Insurance Act to allow self-employed persons to opt into the special benefits programs under the Employment Insurance (EI) program, such as maternity and parental benefits and the Compassionate Care Benefit.

OCASI calls on the committee—you—to reintroduce these recommendations. The next few years are going to be most challenging for OCASI members as they attempt to help clients survive the recession. Our members cannot do this alone. The crisis is already upon us, and we urge the government to act quickly.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

That's great.

Thank you.

Ms. Ngjelina.

[Athina Ngjelina]

I must first say that as grateful as I am for being here today, I am very emotional, and I am very nervous, so forgive me, please. I must say first that I truly appreciate all of you here and the work you're doing.

I heard many times “the woman, the woman,” and I am the woman, and I am the mother. I want you to forgive me today, because this is one of the greatest days of my life, because I have the chance to bring out the voice of the mother and the woman who lived without EI benefits for four years.

As a very young child, I had the true benefits of love and care and guidance of exceptional parents, who taught me that education will always open my path. They taught me how to learn from the teaching of the greatest minds of humanity from the ancient time to the modern time. I faced political discrimination since a very young age, and I know how it feels not to have the freedom of speech, the freedom to learn. I was refused three times the opportunity to have good schooling, but with my parents' support I made it. We all talk about the importance of the early years, what a difference the early years make to our children, and how important and significant our investment in those first years of life is. I do believe that those first years of my life and my love and passion and dedication and determination to give my son a better future have got me here today in front of you. I thank you very much for giving me this opportunity.

It was about ten years ago that Canada would be my home, and I never will be able to articulate how it feels to be free, with no fears and not running for my life. I was reminded all my life that I always could build something from nothing, if only I could be a free citizen, a respected one, and could be given opportunity to live in a democratic place. I worked for my first three years in four different restaurants as a waitress. It was very difficult to balance the schedule so I could do a few hours in each one of them, but it was good enough to help me learn quite a bit of the language, and how things worked in my new home, and to make me self-sufficient to support myself, and even make a little bit of savings, because I have learned how to live with very little.

I took my savings, and I opened a business with a very minimal investment. It took very long hours, but it didn't seem that long at the time. It took a lot of physical work to build a business with no money for advertisement, for equipment, for almost anything. I was very proud and very happy that I could build something from nothing. Afterwards, I learned that treating each one of my guests as a very special person was the success of my business.

I was blessed to have a wonderful son in the second year of my business. I did not have an opportunity to have maternity leave. I did not have much money to have a lot of employees and bookkeepers and all that is needed to run a business.

I returned to work three weeks after having a C-section and I still was very happy. About a year later my precious child started losing his words and the first signs of panic came. I am not very comfortable telling you that I have lived in panic for the last four years. But I am very comfortable telling you that I have learned how to live one day at a time and one hour at a time, and I hang on to the hope that one day someone representing the government will hear me--not just me, because I truly believe my voice represents a lot of mothers like me--and will make so much needed change by giving access to some kind of help.

I have knocked on all the doors, and I am very happy and grateful to my God that I have found the strength, on my son's behalf, to advocate and try to knock on all the doors that I can to find the help. There is not much available out there.

But I am not angry. I am desperate, but I am hopeful.

I did not have a day off. I did not have a sick day for all those years. I was working in the beginning to build a dream, to build a better life, and now I am working full-time and overtime every day to help my son, little by little, to break down the information and to build a little communication skill. I know that no one can make it alone and I cannot make it alone also, nor can my son.

At the end of the day, the bills need to be paid. Having a special needs child right away made me a special mother. Besides severe autism, my son has a lot of other issues related to his immune system. I have spent countless nights in an emergency room chair.

I am very sorry if this is not something that you wish to hear today, but I am very grateful that you are listening to me.

I urge you to please do something. Use any power that you have and provide something for fathers and mothers like me, and for children like my child.

I have worked very hard. I truly have worked very hard and I believe I deserve some support. I do not really have a place to go and I just want to hope that someone will give me another opportunity. I hope someone here knows what autism is, but I know what living with it is.

Give me another opportunity to talk to the experts, because I have to be the speech pathologist, the occupational therapist, the physiotherapist, and the service coordinator.

I have to do the laundry. I have to blend the food. The sensory issues are very complex. My son's disorder is very complex and it requires a very complex intervention.

I want to hope that some of you today will join me and make a difference, not only for the EI contribution. It could be something else that I'm not aware of; I don't have that commodity any more, not even watching the news. I am a full-time caregiver.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much, Ms. Ngjelina.

Now we begin with our questions.

Ms. Zarac.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chairman.

Thank you for your very touching testimony, Mrs. Ngjelina.

First you introduced yourself as a woman, but also, second, as a mother. The one can't be detached from the other. Most women are mothers, and they must not be penalized for that. The government of Canada must be seen as a government that recognizes that women bear children and that, to a large degree, they are responsible for caring for them. Both Ms. Spencer and Ms. Ngjelina say that immigrant women are at a disadvantage with respect to employment insurance, mainly because they hold temporary jobs when they arrive in the country and are not considered as re-entering the job market.

Ms. Spencer, you talked about the report entitled Improving the Economic Security of Women: Time to Act and about Recommendation 13, which concerns employment insurance criteria. What criteria should be changed to improve the plight of immigrant women?

[Lucya Spencer]

As we spoke about earlier, they're working part-time and contributing to the system, but they're not getting anything out of the system, so OCASI is calling for changes to the system that will allow women to claim.

As Athina just said, she works so many jobs. She's speaking for thousands of immigrant women in this country who are working triple days in order to succeed and who are contributing to but not getting anything out of the system. Even though they're sick, even though they're on parental leave, or even if they're looking after their kids, they have nothing whatsoever to fall back on.

We want to see some change in the system that would allow these individuals to claim something when such situations happen in their lives.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Can you be more specific? What criteria would you like to see?

[Lucya Spencer]

I'm speaking for myself now, because OCASI did not give me permission to do this. What I would like to see is criteria put in place such that after women have worked a certain number of days, hours, or weeks, they would have access to EI, to the employment system. I think I heard the previous speaker talk about an additional five days or something like that, which would allow women to have that access. That is one of the things.

There should be no barriers whatsoever given the fact that these women have contributed and also recognizing that they do have skills. They bring a lot of skills into this country, but those skills are not utilized, and they're taking whatever they can get in order to help themselves integrate into society.

Why do we put up these artificial barriers when their lives change? That's the very point when they really need some help. We want to see criteria that will allow them to have access to the system.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

I agree with you. Sixty per cent of university graduates are women, and yet there is still a 19% wage gap between women and men. Women earn lower wages than men, which has a direct impact on employment insurance benefits. Women are penalized from the outset.

You also talked about returning to the labour market. As an immigrant, what could facilitate your job market entry?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Before you answer that, Lucya, we're starting all over again with the new set of witnesses, so you do have three minutes.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Thank you.

[Lucya Spencer]

Hard taskmaster.

One of the things you mentioned earlier was the pay, that women earn far less than men. One of the things we have been working for over a number of years in this country—and when I say “we”, I'm referring to the women's movement—is equal pay for work of equal value for the women in this country.

We have seen some incentives. We have seen some changes, but they're not enough. As long as women are at the bottom of the totem pole, we'll always have a problem in this country. So we need to improve that.

We need to improve the minimum wage. What is it now? Seven dollars or six something? What can that buy in today's economy?

So we need to see these changes put in place to allow women to earn the type of income they require to really integrate and to really take their place in society.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Do I still have time?

Employment insurance offers training programs to help people enter the labour market. In your opinion, what changes to training would help improve the plight of immigrant women?

[Lucya Spencer]

Yes, there is another recommendation in the standing committee's report on income security, which I didn't mention, and I think it's recommendation 3, which talked about the eligibility criteria for access to LINC training. I think we need to re-look at that, we really need to rethink that, to ensure that women are not barred from participating in some of these training programs. Because of the eligibility criteria barrier placed there, many women who would really like to access these programs are denied that opportunity.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

My goodness, Ms. Demers, you have at least 20 seconds left.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you very much, Ms. Spencer.

Thank you, Ms. Ngjelina. I have a lot of sympathy for you. I have a 38-year-old son who is a hemophiliac. When I had him, there weren't any services for the parents of hemophiliac children either, and it was considered more serious than it is today. I sympathize with you a great deal and I thank you for your courage in coming and presenting that to strangers, in front of strangers, not knowing what you could get out of it. Unfortunately, I'm afraid that it will be quite little, but, on the other hand, I believe that every time a woman takes a step forward, every time a woman who has a need dares to express it, dares to say it to people who represent her in government, she may have a chance to open an ear or a heart. I believe that because I am a very confident woman.

I previously worked a great deal with immigrant women. I congratulate you all the more for all the work you are doing, Ms. Spencer.

Ms. Ngjelina, I would like to know what has happened to your business since you had your son and discovered that he is autistic. In addition, if you don't have a job, perhaps you are eligible for the new program for women who have been unemployed or out of the job market for a number of years and who need to requalify in order to find a job. That's part of the new employment insurance program. Ms. Boucher could perhaps give you some additional information on that; she is the parliamentary secretary for Status of Women.

As regards your son, Ms. Ngjelina, I don't know what services you can find, but there is no doubt an organization for natural caregivers. Do you belong to that kind of organization? If not, we can no doubt give you contact information to help you find support. There is also an organization for autistic persons. We can give you the references so that you can find support in that area as well. You deserve all our sympathy, but also all our recognition for everything you are doing. Thank you very much for being here.

Ms. Spencer, I would like to know one thing. We've made recommendations regarding immigrant women who work as household workers under the Live-in Caregiver Program, which more particularly serves women from the Philippines. These women also have a lot of problems as a result of the situation with which you are no doubt familiar. They must live at the home of their employer for two years before they can obtain documents legalizing their residence and before they can look for another job. As a result, some women experience situations of abuse because they have to live in the same place for two years. Do you know whether the situation has improved?

In yesterday's newspapers—this is beginning to come out—it was reported that the economic crisis is currently affecting immigrant women more than women in other communities. I would like to hear what you have to say on that as well. Thank you.

[Lucya Spencer]

I'm not too clear on the last part of your question. Are you asking if live-in caregivers are experiencing greater problems or difficulties because of the EI situation?

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

No, Ms. Spencer. Yesterday the papers reported that immigrant women are currently being hit harder by the economic crisis. I wasn't talking about immigrant women who work under the Live-in Caregiver Program; that's another component. I'm asking you whether the status of those women has improved, but also to tell us about the situation of immigrant women who have jobs other than as domestic workers.

[Lucya Spencer]

Has their situation improved? No. And I'm saying no because, as I said earlier, a lot of our information comes from the clientele we see in the various agencies.

I don't know how OCASI gathered the information, but my understanding is that there was a discussion among some agency members, and the reports coming back to the workers seeing and hearing from the clientele they serve are that many of the women are still experiencing difficulties in accessing EI programs. There may be situations where others have been successful in finding employment, or longer-term employment, but the numbers are so minuscule they're not even worth talking about. The majority of individuals are still having difficulties; hence, we haven't really seen the type of improvement that we would like to see for women in this country, especially racialized women.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

Ms. Ngjelina, can you give me some more information on your business?

[Athina Ngjelina]

For one of them, I just let it go. The other one I sold. I managed to have two of them. I sold it for a very minimum amount of money.

I want to let you know that I have an official education of 19 years. I am an agricultural engineer. I was working on my PhD in genetic engineering. I am very knowledgeable about my son's disorder, and I am very grateful that I am able to help my son every day, but I wanted to bring the voice for the other mothers who don't have enough education and who don't know. They desperately want to help, but they don't know how to help.

The other thing is that I didn't have much savings to live on. If there were an EI support, I wouldn't have to exhaust my business credit line. I don't know how to pay that one. I don't have any income to pay my bills. I had the gas cut off for a week. No one here can imagine what it is like to have that happen. I want to say that I wish I had eloquence and comfort with the language because it has made me handicapped. At the same time, I really see how my son feels, how it feels when you are not able to talk. I'm so proud of the lady beside me who can talk on my behalf and for many other people here. I am so sad I cannot articulate it, but I can if there are programs available to support me. I'm sure I could find a job. I'm sure I could open a business again tomorrow.

The other thing is I want to let you know that when I heard people before complaining about taxes--our taxes are too high of course--but I truly have a great pleasure paying the taxes because I do believe what Gandhi used to say that you must be the change you wish to see in the world. I have been taught this since I was a very little girl. I always wanted to be the change that I want to see in the world. I paid revenue bills and all my obligations as a citizen literally with great pleasure, and I never complained about it. I have investments because I believe in the contribution that we make to our society, to our country. But I do not understand who made the decision to say to me, “Yes, you're welcome. You work. You build. You invest. But when your child is sick, you are penniless.” You can go from church to church for five diapers at a time. It's very humiliating, Madame, but I didn't feel humiliated because my mother instincts, my mother heart have driven me those last four years. All I wanted was for Llorian to have his diaper on, because my son has constant diarrhea, and he has had a chronic ear infection for more than two years. That's what I wanted.

I have lived on food bank soups for more than a year, and I have a serious iron deficiency. Despite taking a supplement, my body is not producing it. It is not working. I have a lot of health problems, but if I am given the right help to just start, just move a little bit from this hole that I am in, of course I will be able again to give to my society. I have employed a lot of people in my past. I am very proud, and very happy that I did that. I don't want that to turn into sadness, but I think I do deserve a little bit better.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much, Ms. Ngjelina.

Now I will move on to Mrs. McLeod.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I will be sharing my time with Ms. Hoeppner.

First of all, I would certainly like to congratulate you, Ms. Ngjelina, for the great courage you've shown in coming and sharing your story.