Status of Women Committee on April 21st, 2010

[Luc Desnoyers, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Welcome, everyone.

I feel a little like my Liberal Party colleague. There are so many questions we could ask. This is a major societal drama, in my view. I heard you talk a lot about the cultural aspect of the various groups, whether they be Metis or Inuit, and of the various locations. I agree that, if action is taken, it is up to you to act, that is to say that you must direct all action, with money that you can manage to get from the government, to solve this problem.

One of my main questions—I don't know whether you're thinking about this as well—is whether the money will serve strictly to bring about justice or to put in place a real system for reversing the present culture? I was thinking about what Ms. O'Hearn said: in a remote community, how do you ensure that women are no longer battered? If you take them away from their homes, then return them to their homes, they will be battered again. So how do you go about resolving that?

There's no doubt a lot of awareness, information and work to do; action has to be taken. It's on that subject that I'd like to hear from you so that we can ultimately tell the government that it will take more than $10 million to solve this kind of problem. If you start working on this problem today, it won't be solved tomorrow, based on what I've heard. So I'd like you to tell me how much time would be needed. It's incredible to see that these kinds of murders are committed, that they are not resolved, that the police do not handle them. They probably take the bodies and throw them to the bears—or I don't know what—and the police do nothing. The malaise runs deep.

I would like to hear more from you because what you say is fascinating, and we must listen to that today if we want to take concrete measures in future.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Do you wish to answer that, Ms. Tucker?

[Sandra Tucker, Manager, Abuse Issues, Pauktuutit Inuit Women's Association]

Yes, thank you.

I thank you for your insight into the ongoing issues and concerns that I think all of us face with typically limited blocks of funding for short-term projects. We all recognize what needs to be done. I think the first step in order to accomplish anything is sustainable funding. This happens on the front lines every day. We can trace this back to the lack of trust that has come out of the residential schools, that's come out of colonialization.

We just establish programs, be it safe shelters or be it education programs, and we gain the trust of the community members to take part in it, to begin their healing journey, when the money dries up and we have to start again. Each time we have to literally reinvent the same wheel, it takes away the trust that the people in the communities have in organizations, in the government as a whole, because there's not that stability.

We can relate that back to various funding opportunities that have been out there, particularly recently, with the announcement of the cut to the Aboriginal Healing Foundation. With the amount of work that went into creating the reputation and the successfulness of that project, which is now gone, we're hearing people in our communities say it didn't take five years to create the problems we have today and it's going to take a lot longer than five years to fix them.

When, as aboriginal peoples, as indigenous peoples, we have been put aside historically as lower class citizens, the impacts of having funding opportunities and program sustainability taken away from us has a much deeper effect than what I think we believe to happen on the surface. So it's not only bringing the money in but keeping the sustainability of programs going.

Be it money for shelters, be it money for education programs in the schools, it has to be ongoing. That's the only way we are truly going to be able to bring about a difference in abuse, in missing and murdered children, in family violence. We need that sustainability.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Is there anyone who wanted to add something? You have two more minutes to go.

[Kate Rexe]

I'd like to reiterate what Ms. Tucker said. Yes, absolutely, there needs to be sustainability in funding for resources and services, especially front line services, but we also have to start to make a shift in consciousness of society to recognize and to revalue aboriginal women and honour the rights of aboriginal women and the history, the tradition, the role of aboriginal women as mothers, as caregivers, as educators.

In doing so, the Native Women's Association of Canada is working toward educating not just aboriginal communities but also the police about the history of colonization, the impact of violence, and the experiences of violence on aboriginal women. How else are police going to better understand how to respond to calls of violence in communities and to work better with communities?

We're also starting to establish a working relationship in reviewing curriculum with the Ministry of Education in Ontario and we would like to do so for more educators across Canada, to talk about the issue of violence against aboriginal women in schools as part of the educational curriculum at the secondary school level so there is a better understanding not just within aboriginal communities but for all Canadians about what the issues of violence are and why these issues of violence exist.

We also think it's really important to acknowledge the apprehension of children in the child welfare system as simply an ongoing impact of intergenerational abuse and colonization, which has stemmed from the same types of government policies as residential schools in the sixties scoop. We must allow aboriginal children to stay in their families and in their communities in order to end this cycle of dislocation and cultural dislocation from communities.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

I'm sorry, Mr. Desnoyers, your seven minutes are up.

Cathy McLeod for the Conservatives, please.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would like to thank all the witnesses. I think it's very timely that we've started this study, certainly in terms of the very recent release of the full study and report from the Sisters In Spirit.

I've always felt very fortunate to be from British Columbia and to live in Canada, but I have to share a sense of shame to know that my province and my country are identified as one of the worst in terms of missing aboriginal women and children. No one can feel anything but shame over those circumstances.

I appreciate all the very significant and good work of the Aboriginal Healing Foundation. I was there for part of the debate, and I listened to some very powerful statements and comments by different members. I also have to look at...you know, within my riding, there was actually nothing happening. They weren't able to take advantage of any of the resources; there were no specific initiatives.

Also perhaps--this is in other ridings too--Health Canada might have the money, but most of the health care services, at least in my riding, have been devolved to the bands. They've been devolved to the groups. So hopefully what's going to happen is that this will allow an integration, managed by the bands, managed by groups like the Q'wemtsin Health Society, not only to provide some additional support but also to integrate it into a whole network and fabric of care. Certainly the intention of our government is to provide that support more broadly. It is not in any way to diminish the incredibly excellent work that was done.

A number of people talked about having data. I'm going to date myself--I do this sometimes--but I certainly remember that in the 1980s there was an identification of different ethnic groups within the health care system. That was seen as inappropriate and wrong, so I think we moved away from it.

How did it work in Saskatchewan? How did you get agreement to collect data in a way that was respectful to everyone involved?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Ms. Rexe, can you speak to the data?

[Kate Rexe]

In Saskatchewan, there is aboriginal identity-specific information related to missing and murdered aboriginal women and girls.

I do understand your point around the sensitivity of collecting information around ethnic identity and specific aboriginal identity. I think there has to be an ethical protocol that goes along with it, that supports a sensitivity and cultural need. Rather than approaching it from a perspective of racial profiling, it needs to be welcomed by communities and essentially incorporated into communities able and willing to share information as opposed to having information extracted. Typical or traditional research methods, whereby information is extracted without any reciprocity back to the communities or even providing resources or services to meet the needs of communities, that's where it becomes a challenge.

About two years ago we conducted community engagement workshops on justice within 10 different communities to talk about the issue of collection of data on justice issues, and the specific question of collecting information by aboriginal identity, including first nations, Métis, and Inuit.

What came out was a very cautious, yes, this information should be collected, but it must be done in a culturally appropriate way. It must be done in a way that honours the communities, the cultures, and the need for services and resources once the information is collected. You can't just take information and then never apply the appropriate response to the communities in terms of victim services, access to shelters, culturally appropriate counselling services for victims of domestic violence or even other forms of violence.

That is where the disconnect is in terms of collecting information. We have to move forward with those resources and supports in place so that once we do collect the information, an immediate response is available to communities.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

So could you talk a little bit more about--

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

One and a half minutes.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

--how Saskatchewan got to that place in terms of data?

[Kate Rexe]

I'm not quite sure exactly how it got to that place in terms of collecting information on missing and murdered aboriginal women and girls. However, the RCMP in Saskatoon, I believe, had been working on a pilot project that was recently sort of quashed; it was to have had the ongoing collection based on aboriginal identity.

I believe one of the reasons it didn't move forward is that the resources and the victims services were not in place. Once police were collecting information and trained in a way to collect information in a culturally sensitive and appropriate way, they would not be able to provide the resources for victims of crime, based on aboriginal, first nations, Metis, and Inuit-specific needs.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Yes, Ms. Cloud.

[Chief Elizabeth Cloud]

I just want to say that we have the Gladue court in our area. I think a lot of people know what Gladue was all about--the systemic discrimination against aboriginals in the justice system. I think the government made a lot of good recommendations. Even though a person will plead guilty now, they have the choice to go before a Gladue court.

So there was a collection of magnitude at that level within the Department of Justice; it's not something that couldn't be done. That would be my comment: if it's supported by the federal government to start some sort of national database...

When I look at the Ipperwash inquiry, there is more sensitivity training for the Ontario Provincial Police now. I thought that was a very good recommendation. I really see some benefits from that in my whole area.

That's the only comment I wanted to make.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

I'll go to Ms. Mathyssen for the NDP.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you very much.

I have to say thank you for all the wisdom and information that you've brought to this committee, not just today but over the years that we've met to talk about the issues important to women. I also want to say thank you for What Their Stories Tell Us. It is a remarkable piece of work, and I know that we will be able to use it in order to advance the cause of ending violence and making things better for women.

I'm going to throw out some general questions. I think I might start with you, Kate.

Before I do that, I want to say to Chief Cloud that I knew Dudley George, and we miss him. It's been a great loss to all of us.

At any rate, in budget 2010, $10 million was pledged to address the issue of the missing and murdered women. It sounds like a lot of money, but it's not. It's just a very, very small beginning, I think.

I am wondering if you have been advised when that funding will flow. Have you heard when it will flow? Do you know to what degree NWAC will have a say in how the money is used? Have you been informed at all in regard to the funding and how it will be allocated?

[Kate Rexe]

Actually, no; unfortunately, we have not heard any word on what this funding will be or how it might be allocated in Canada.

I do understand that it is under the Minister of Justice's responsibilities. We don't know what role NWAC will play, but we do hope that the knowledge, expertise, and leadership that have been shown by NWAC--specific to the issue of missing and murdered aboriginal women--will be recognized in how the money is allocated and that this information will be used to make sure that the resources are spent in the most meaningful way.

However, I think it's important to understand this. As you mentioned, it's only a small amount of money, and I do hope that there will be complementary funds available to actually have direct front line resources available to communities and to women. The $10 million will not be able to address the issue on the front lines and the immediate needs of women in communities.

So I do hope that, however the money is used, it is used in a very meaningful way and in the best possible way to address issues of justice.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Does it not make sense, though, to consult with all of you in regard to how you start, where you start, and what needs to happen with that money?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Ms. O'Hearn.

[Tracy O'Hearn]

Thank you very much. I'm happy to add to that and answer your question.

We have been actively trying to follow up with the Department of Justice, and we haven't been able to get a meeting yet. We understand they are still looking at how they will administer it.

I'd like to just reiterate the need for a population-based response and, with the greatest respect to NWAC, there has to be an equitable Inuit allocation, because the priorities of Inuit women may or may not be similar to those of the Sisters In Spirit initiative. There would be distinct northern priorities and urban priorities as well.

I would like to just touch upon the Healing Foundation for a moment. Our experience with the Healing Foundation has been that Inuit are often considered an add-on. Yes, they did outstanding work, but I would suggest it was not until about halfway through their mandate that Inuit were able to begin submitting successful proposals and organizing to be able to even apply to the Healing Foundation. A lot of the criteria just didn't fit.

So we're hopeful that with this recent and modest announcement, we will be able to negotiate an equitable allocation, and certainly Métis women would have their own priorities as well. We would certainly look to this committee for your support of that.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you.

Ms. O'Hearn, you talked about the sexual abuse of children. We know that abusers themselves have often been sexually abused. It's a horrific cycle. I wondered if you could talk a little bit about the child sexual abuse strategy that you've developed, because obviously there has to be intervention. There has to be prevention. We have to see some kind of help for these children so that they're not going to be the perpetrators of the future.

I just wondered if you would talk about that a bit.

[Tracy O'Hearn]

It would be my pleasure.

One of our primary concerns in raising awareness of the issue, increasing awareness and encouraging public dialogue, is that there are no services, by and large, in the communities for children who may disclose. So there has to be a careful approach.

In Nunavik a number of good, ethical research models can be looked at. One is a health survey that was done in the 14 coastal communities of Nunavik. They had a whole communication strategy, but of the people who participated in that survey, more than 40% self-reported unwanted sexual conduct before the age of majority. That's 40% of the population of Nunavik. We would like to somehow get a better understanding of the prevalence. There's a need for resources.

We've developed some tools, including elements of a communication strategy, but working with an advisory committee of experts, we were strongly cautioned: we have to be careful how we introduce even teaching tools for use in the schools, because there really are no supports for children who may disclose.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

I'm going to throw this out there--

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have half a minute.