Status of Women Committee on April 21st, 2010

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Now we'll go to Ms. Demers for the Bloc.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you for being here, mesdames.

I find it very hard to listen to what you have to say because, like many Quebec and Canadian women, I'm not familiar with the situation of aboriginal women. Like a number of you, when aboriginal people complained, I thought they were wrong to do so, that they already had enough, that is until Hélène Gabriel came to my office and told me the history. In fact, we don't know the history. History isn't taught in the schools. We don't know what happened.

So, like every good white person, I think we're the bosses and we know better how to take care of you. So we continue to do the same thing. The Sisters in Spirit have done an outstanding job. The aboriginal communities are doing an outstanding job with what little resources they have. I went to Iqaluit to meet with the people from the shelter. I was fascinated by the ability of the people who work there, despite the fact that the women who live there have to stay there for months—not weeks, but months—because there are no halfway houses. If they are sent back home, they are sent back to violence.

Currently they say there is $10 million, but we don't give it to you because we don't know how to take care of you. We know how to stop violence. Once again it's us, the whites who are going to tell you how to stop the violence. I have a lot of trouble accepting that. We lead you to believe that there is money for the Aboriginal Healing Foundation, in the health sector. If there is money, we should give it to you. We lead you to believe that there is $10 million for the Sisters in Spirit. If that money is there, let's give it to you and stop leading people to believe things, telling stories and saying whatever and give you the money because you are the ones who know how to heal, how to take the measures you have to take to ensure that women no longer experience this violence. I've had enough! Pardon me, but I had to say that.

Don't you see you're in the best position to know how to help women get away from violence?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Who would like to start that answer?

Ms. Watteyne, you look as if you're interested...

Ms. Johnson...?

Yes, Ms. O'Hearn.

[Tracy O'Hearn]

Thank you. I'd be happy to jump in.

Thank you for your comments. We would certainly agree. We understand anecdotally that a significant amount of this $10 million will be going to policing, which is an important piece of the picture in trying to ensure women's safety, but we certainly agree with you that various organizations have developed significant expertise. That's something we would welcome.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Chief Cloud.

[Chief Elizabeth Cloud]

I certainly appreciate those comments. You're right that it would be the people who have worked and lived in that field. My own daughter-in-law's mother was killed with an axe. I can't even begin to imagine what that would have been like for her when she was 16. Even though I might not have been a victim of violence myself, it's all around us. Even if we're professional aboriginal women, it's all around us. I worry about my grandchildren and what effect it will have. Will my daughter-in-law be a good parent because of what she had to live through and the violence she saw with her parents?

I really appreciate your comments. They are in the right direction. The people who have lived that would be the best people. We at AFN are promoting that the plan has to be in place to begin to deal with the situation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Ms. Tucker.

[Sandra Tucker]

We spend a significant amount of time talking about where moneys need to be allocated. Each group at the table brings such diverse yet common challenges and experiences to the table. For all of us, particularly for first nations and Inuit, we talk about on reserve and off reserve. We talk about northern communities versus the southern communities, and the commonalities and the differences that are there.

I'm reflecting back on a story that one of my co-workers was telling me today. A personal acquaintance of hers was recently, within the last couple of weeks, murdered by her spouse, and he in turn committed suicide. There are people in the urban settings who have plights equally as horrendous as those of people living in the remote communities, on the reserves, in northern or more removed communities. How many of those people are going unaccounted for?

I think, Ms. Demers, you bring up a valuable point, and I think it ties into our lack of ability to get reliable numbers and statistics. There's still a stigma attached to identifying as being first nations, Métis, or Inuit. Clearly that was the case in the 2006 aboriginal peoples study done by Statistics Canada, because even today, in 2010, we're still dealing with the stigmas attached to being aboriginal.

I think we've come a long way, but we've still got a very long way to go, particularly for the Inuit people in the north. We often forget that they were as equally impacted by the residential schools as were the first nations and the Métis people.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Now I would like to go to Ms. Mathyssen again, for the NDP, for five minutes.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

With the indulgence of the committee, I'd like to share my time with Ms. Ashton.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

The committee will have to unanimously agree to that.

That's fine?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

The committee agrees.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill, MB]

Thank you very much.

Thank you very much for your presentations. I found them very moving. Certainly, as somebody who represents northern Manitoba, many of us know of the important work of Sisters In Spirit and are deeply concerned about the current situation and the fact that $10 million, as we've heard today, remains to be allocated. But of course there's a serious lack of consultation.

A number of questions, similar to what we've heard, came to my mind as you made presentations. While I heard your presentations, I heard the voices of friends of mine, of women I've grown up with, who are in our communities speaking out about these issues. There are the posters of missing women on the highways around our region and in our public places. While a silence has been broken, a silence still exists when it comes to finding answers and dealing with the root issues.

I believe one of the themes that came up in your presentations about the comprehensive nature of not just dealing with violence once it's happened, certainly in terms of research, was the prevention aspect. I would like to get all of your thoughts—Ms. Tucker, you were the first to bring it up—on the question of the unsustainability of programming, with a particular focus on the Aboriginal Healing Foundation.

As a passionate advocate of the need for the AHF and its programming in the region that I represent and all across Canada, I've been very concerned about this government's approach to the AHF. I'm also concerned about comments that were made today that the money from the AHF is now with Health Canada. Community organizations that have shut their doors on the ground will tell you there is no money for these kinds of programs, that Health Canada employees do not exist to pick up the slack, and that Health Canada has no plan to pick up the programming that was implemented by the AHF.

But what I would like to hear is your understanding of the importance of healing programming; the need to bring out the residential school experience; the need to understand that this isn't just about making an apology but about listening to communities and allowing communities to create their own programming; and your thoughts on whether or not the federal government ought to be supporting this kind of comprehensive programming as a way of also dealing with the issue of violence experienced by aboriginal women.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Who would like to start this?

Ms. O'Hearn.

[Tracy O'Hearn]

Thank you.

It's critical--it's critical--and I would like to share with you a couple of examples of the need for distinct and unique approaches.

There are 26 communities in Nunavut spread very broadly. It's not possible to have a full web of support services in a community of 500. Through the Healing Foundation a mobile crisis response program was developed so that a group of experts could go to different communities. It's not ideal, but it was a made-in-Nunavut healing approach.

We develop a lot of models at our organization. We don't do service delivery, but we work with people in the communities and experts to develop healing models. We're refining an “on the land” program. We're working with Status of Women Canada over two years to support women in leadership roles. This is based on a project called Somebody's Daughter, which brings women on the land.

Over a week, people reconnect with traditional skills, like making kamiks and cleaning skins. There are elders and counsellors present. There's a journalling component. So through the week, with different and complementary activities, it really builds women's self-esteem as a very important tool in addressing violence, whether in their own lives or in the community.

So yes it's critical, but it has to be specific to different regions and different peoples. Language is very important.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Ms. Boucher.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Good afternoon, mesdames. I am pleased to see you here.

Knowing and understanding what is going on is a real concern for us. We must admit something unfortunate: I agree with Ms. Demers when she says that, as white women, we don't really know the situation of aboriginal, Innu and Metis women.

I've been a parliamentary secretary for nearly three years. I have had the opportunity to meet with a number of groups. However, I am not used to doing this, but I'm going to correct the perception. Ms. Demers was experiencing what I call a hormonal crisis. We have invested the $10 million amount because we believe in it.

In my view, everyone around the table absolutely wants to know and do one thing... I'm not done. I've been attacked personally. Today I want to understand why women... Women have to get together, not against each other, to understand what is happening to aboriginal women who have disappeared.

I'm going to repeat what I said, Ms. Demers. I repeat so that you will be present. I merely said that I wanted to correct a perception. I didn't know how to say it exactly; I used the words “hormonal crisis”, but she knows me and knows that's not what I meant. I wanted to correct the perception because I think we want to understand here why this happens to aboriginal women.

If Ms. Demers were here, she could respond and Ms. Neville as well. One day, aboriginal women came. On the first page of the newspaper, we saw the picture of a white woman with blue eyes and blond hair who had disappeared. The photograph of an aboriginal woman was on another page, not far from the sports page. I remember it because it made me angry. I'm white and I don't know the situation of aboriginal, Innu or Metis women.

However, I would like to know this. You said a little earlier that you weren't getting any help from the police. What should the committee do to try to help you the best way possible, by working together to help aboriginal women and especially to understand what happens in the field? How is it that we get no more information on disappeared women?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Before we answer the question—

[Luc Desnoyers, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

--I would like to suggest, Madame Boucher, that I think we need to be very careful in this committee how we speak about our colleagues. I would hope that you would want to take back your comment about Madame Demers.

I would like to state that as chair: I think that was not appropriate.

Ms. Neville, you wish to say something.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

I have a point of order on Ms. Boucher's comment, Madam Chair.

I found it offensive for Ms. Demers and I found it offensive for all the women sitting in this room.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I think the chair has duly noted that.

Monsieur Desnoyers.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

I'm going to withdraw my remarks.

[Luc Desnoyers, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Like Ms. Neville, I believe that Nicole spoke with passion and determination about a cause in which she believes, the situation of aboriginal women across the country and that of women, in both Quebec and Canada. I believe she is a woman of heart and intent. I agree that we should not treat each other this way, amongst ourselves.