Status of Women Committee on April 21st, 2010

[Kate Rexe]

We have been speaking with the RCMP and also working with the Winnipeg Police Service. One of the areas around identification concerns police not feeling comfortable asking the question, not being trained in a way to be culturally appropriate.

That's where one of the barriers is. Another barrier is that it is perceptions-based in the police. It's the perception of the police officer who identifies the aboriginal identity of a victim, which is often identified as aboriginal in a pan-aboriginal approach, as opposed to first nations, Métis or Inuit specific. This creates huge problems around the actual and accurate numbers for the aggregate.

What we need to do, I think, is work better with police. The police force...in particular RCMP, which cover 75% of all policing jurisdictions in Canada, systematically refuse to answer the question of identity because there are different jurisdictions and different detachments of RCMP that collect information or don't collect information, and there can be no accurate response to the question of ethnic identity.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Ms. Rexe.

Now I'll go to Monsieur Desnoyers.

[Luc Desnoyers, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

First of all, I saw a program on CBC two or three months ago that showed aboriginal women across Canada working the streets. We clearly saw racism, sexism and even abuse against these women. It wasn't committed by other aboriginal individuals, but by whites. Earlier one of you, I don't remember who, talked about preventing mistreatment. That may be intended for aboriginal people, of course, but I believe it could also be intended for communities located near aboriginal reserves, where women often go. Here we're talking about Vancouver, but I could also tell you about towns in northern Quebec. Women leave the reserves and go into those towns. That's where a lot of things start.

We were talking about abuse prevention. Are we also looking at the awareness component, information from white communities near those reserves? I don't believe the culture has changed a lot between dominant and dominated communities, even today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have one and a half minutes to answer the questions.

Ms. Tucker.

[Sandra Tucker]

I think we need to look again at systemic racism and recognize that generations of Canadians have been given a very skewed picture of the experiences of Inuit, Métis, and first nations people in Canada. If we truly want to begin to combat violence and aggression, we need to deal with the racism as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Anyone else wish to field that question? No?

You have one minute left, Monsieur Desnoyers.

[Luc Desnoyers, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

You talked about prevention programs. Have you considered informing white communities located near those reserves? I don't know how that could be done, but perhaps we need to go into white schools to talk about those cultures, that is where they come from, ultimately. As Nicole was saying, we have to talk about history because that's what has marked our country. I think you are very much a part of that. I know that certain things we no longer want to see are often banished from the history books because we think we've gone way past that, but, in fact, everyone is still there.

[Chief Elizabeth Cloud]

I think that's a great idea. We're introducing curriculum into our high schools, working with the Ministry of Education, to help students understand why the Ipperwash crisis happened. I think it's a great idea. Not only that, the Lambton-Kent board—their high schools, which our students attend—now has self-identification of students off the reserve who can self-identify as aboriginal, non-aboriginal, or Métis. It's another way to collect data. Some subtle things could be done, but that's with education.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Chief Cloud.

Now we'll go to Irene Mathyssen. We're cutting this fine, so I'm going to be really rigid about the three minutes for the next two. It's Mr. Calandra after Ms. Mathyssen.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'm glad to hear, Chief Cloud, that there is education going on, because the on-fire crowds scared me. They just scared me.

Violence prevention strategies—I'm going to throw this out for everyone—have been criticized for placing the onus on the victim: she is responsible to ensure her own safety. It effectively removes responsibility from the perpetrator, and, of course, society tends to allow it to continue to exist, because “she” is responsible.

I wonder what is available in terms of helping women and reflecting the real needs of aboriginal women with regard to something that is more positive than this. I know that's rather vague, but perhaps you could comment on prevention strategies.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Ms. Rexe.

[Kate Rexe]

I think we often have to think outside the box in terms of prevention strategies. Some of the things we've identified as emerging issues relate to fetal alcohol spectrum disorder, as well as issues of human trafficking and sexual exploitation of women, and changing the language around how we identify victims and what the solutions or possibilities for solutions might be.

They do include thinking outside the box. Women are often not given diversion programs when they are arrested for prostitution, but men are given opportunities for john school, which I think is probably a gender policy that has been created to protect men from criminal charges, whereas women who have been victimized or sexually exploited are charged with a criminal offence and given a criminal record.

That draws them deeper into a system of victimization and ongoing battles with the criminal justice system. Thinking outside the box and looking at opportunities to mentor young women and girls who are involved in the sex trade is probably a better way of preventing abuse and criminal justice infractions within the system and creating positive outcomes for aboriginal women who are too often faced with circumstances like that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

I'll go to Mr. Calandra.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

Chief Cloud, you've touched on Ipperwash a couple of times. I'm wondering what specifically has happened with respect to changes in the OPP. You mentioned some sensitivity training. Have you or your community been involved in that? What other changes specific to your community have happened since then, and how has the community accepted that?

That was obviously an extraordinarily tense situation. If we've seen positive change there, then that might be a model by which we could start making some other changes, specifically also to the police, and if you are involved in helping them better understand how to approach native communities.

[Chief Elizabeth Cloud]

Well, definitely people still are afraid when they see--now--the black car; they've changed colour.

But what we really did and promoted in the area is a lot of sensitivity training. We've just had, actually as of last November, a huge symposium with all law enforcement—with the OPP, the Sarnia police, Nishnawbe police, the border patrol, Fisheries and Oceans—and all of our communities to talk about developing tools that will be used when the police are actually trained.

They have also identified some core OPP officers who I can pick up the phone and call directly so that we have better and open lines of communication. If anything happens where I do need an OPP as well—we have our own Nishnawbe police—I have people I know who I can call. So they've identified specific people themselves.

They have paid more attention, I think, to sensitivity training, so that they don't go in and watch a video for five minutes and think they're sensitized. Now there actually is a little curriculum, and it might take more than a few hours. I was even told that by one of the Sarnia police officers. He said that the only sensitivity training he had was a five-minute video and a “There, you're done”.

So make it as if it is a very important component of the sensitivity training, and just try to mend relationships generally. For the OPP, one of the recommendations they had was to help mend relationships in the community.

I'm not sure if they really had a part of that, but we do have a first nation municipal table, and we've been meeting now. Our MPP, Maria Van Bommel, is chair, because we wanted to make sure that it was a respected committee, not just something that people thought we threw together. Now we're talking about an entire Ipperwash Beach strategy, because we all share the same area.

So I think some significant things have been done, and our officers, some of the people involved in the Ipperwash crisis, now have also become involved in Caledonia, just based on their experience. We've also had the Simon Wiesenthal Center, the centre that deals with the Holocaust, come in and do some workshops, helping us understand our differences. It's called “Tools for Tolerance”.

We've done a number of things, but still, you can never really take away the fact that some of the people who were down there that night will cringe if they see an OPP car pull up behind them now. Dudley George's brother, who was with him in the car that night, he's healing. He's designing a monument for us, and he's doing the landscaping around the monument. That's how he's helped heal from losing his brother that night.

So there have been some really good things going on.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much, Ms. Cloud.

I think we have come to the end of this. I want to thank our witnesses for sharing so honestly with us.

I did want to make one comment, however, just for the record. The fund is $10 million over two years, I understand. Secondly, I don't think it's just white persons who are racists with regard to aboriginal people. I think many people who come to this country as immigrants don't understand the history and behave in the same way. So I would prefer that we use “non-aboriginal systemic racism”, as opposed to just picking one ethnic group and focusing on them.

Thank you very much for coming.

Adjournment, someone?

[Michelle Simson, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

I so move.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

The meeting is adjourned.