Evidence of meeting #21 for Status of Women in the 40th Parliament, 3rd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was women.
Bloc
Nicole Demers Bloc Laval, QC
Okay.
You said you received $100,000 from Newfoundland and it's like a gift from heaven. What amount of money would be necessary from the federal government to do what you want to do within your community? Is it a big amount of money? Is it a small amount of money? Do we have to worry when you say that you need more services and all of that? How do we plead your cause with the government in order to make it understand the need and everything that can be done with such money?
President, Newfoundland Aboriginal Women's Network
For the three-phase project that we undertook, “Aboriginal Women on the Verge of Rising”, we had $156,000 from Status of Women Canada, and partnership funding from Canadian Heritage and the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador of $122,800 for that project. Then when we were asked to do elder abuse workshops in our communities, we got an additional $25,000, I think it was.
Bloc
Nicole Demers Bloc Laval, QC
Did you mean to say that was all it cost you for the first program, “Aboriginal Women on the Verge of Rising”, for the 43 women who participated for 14 months? Were you travelling back and forth and all of that?
President, Newfoundland Aboriginal Women's Network
We stretched it and stretched it and stretched it. It meant that pregnant women had to travel five hours in the winter down the Northern Peninsula, but they were so committed to being there, they went.
When the women went into their communities to give workshops, there were very small honorariums attached: $75 for doing a half-day workshop, and $150 for facilitating a full-day workshop. Anecdotally, what we found after the fact was that those women then took their honorariums and donated them back to their local women's organizations.
Bloc
Nicole Demers Bloc Laval, QC
Would you say that the success of this program could be transported to other communities to be able to do the same thing there?
President, Newfoundland Aboriginal Women's Network
We think so. Labrador is interested, and we're interested in going to Labrador. It's a different culture, but you can apply the model. My understanding of the toolkit that we purchased from NWAC, the Native Women's Association of Canada, was that of all the people who were trained in using this toolkit, we probably took it the furthest and had the most application.
So there are some resources there.
President, Newfoundland Aboriginal Women's Network
Yes, I have some copies of some things here today.
Operational funding is the other thing. You can get project funding, which means that you can do X, Y, and Z, but it means there is no money for a board meeting of the board of directors overseeing a project. There's no money for a phone call, and there's no money for an audit if you found out you had to do an audit. Where would that $800 come from?
So while we're fortunate with project funding, getting operational funding of $100,000 means we can actually keep the lights on in our office. It's core funding.
Conservative
Rob Clarke Conservative Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK
Thanks very much, Madam Chair.
Roseanne, you mentioned the RCMP. Ironically, my background before becoming a member of Parliament was with the RCMP. You indicated the meetings and consultations that you have, probably with the police management board or community policing board. I think you spoke a little bit about the mandate or what some of the community policing boards do in regard to domestic violence.
I also sit on the aboriginal affairs committee, and one of the things I'm curious about is that we are looking at domestic violence on reserve. What I've had to face in my past in going to domestic situations is that allegations that come forward, whether from the female or male, and the positioning of the family most affect the children a lot of times. I've had to do child apprehensions and all of that.
Having to remove the female from the home because that woman does not have ownership of the home really creates a lot of problems, because what we're having to do is to take the mother and the children out of the home while the father remains.
Now that I'm sitting on the aboriginal affairs committee, I'm just wondering what your position is on the matrimonial real property bill that's been reintroduced.
Director of Health Program, Mi'kmaq Confederacy of Prince Edward Island
That's an interesting topic to discuss, because matrimonial property rights should rightfully stay with the woman if she's a victim of violence within her home, because who is the violator if it's violence against her and her children? Then in terms of safety, though, there's a concern if the woman is to stay in the home. What measures are taken to secure her safety there? Is it the role of the police to stand by to ensure safety? Is there certainty that the woman and child will be safe?
There have been many discussions, even within our organization, and that's one thing that's been a concern. Why should she leave her home? So there have been lengthy discussions, and I think we really need to look more closely at the certainty of safety.
Conservative
Rob Clarke Conservative Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK
I realize it's a very awkward position. With my background, most of my service was in aboriginal communities. Having to deal with domestic violence was always a priority, going into the homes of the victims. I can understand that when the police have to go in, we have to look at the safety of the victims and take measures.
I mentioned before in a committee meeting that the RCMP, or even police officers, are peacekeepers. They have to keep the peace. We take all the steps necessary. There are peace bonds, where the female can lay out information to keep the offender away. If it gets down to domestic violence, physical abuse, aggravated assault, or any type of violence, it's then up to the police to undertake to make the offender stay away from that home. It's also up to the courts to impose sanctions so the offender can't go back.
But the difficulty I've seen and some of the problems coming forward now, with this act mentioning real property, is that there is a little bit of hesitation from first nations communities. For one, they don't know how to adjust their band council resolutions to meet this act. But from where I'm sitting and what I've seen, I think this is probably good legislation to protect women.
Director of Health Program, Mi'kmaq Confederacy of Prince Edward Island
It depends on the policing agreement the band council has with the RCMP--or if it's a tribal council. In P.E.I. they have RCMP police agreements. I think it's the responsibility of the powers that be to ensure that the RCMP are educated on this so they understand what “matrimonial property rights” means, if they are going to adhere to that legislation.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Thank you, Rob.
We seem to be talking a lot about domestic violence, which I think is a huge piece. We heard in Nunavut and in Labrador City that there are two areas in which domestic violence may play itself out in terms of the environment that are different.
On reserve, if there is domestic violence, a lot of women don't want to report it. A lot of women don't want the partner to be taken away from the home. There is a problem within the reserve itself of fingering the person who is violent to you, especially if the person is your spouse or your partner. So there is that problem. Where can anybody go for safety on reserve when you're in an isolated area? The woman cannot leave the home. Where does she go? The man, should he leave the home, where does he go? And then when the RCMP is called in and has to look at charges being laid, that creates another barrier, because the woman doesn't want the spouse or partner charged, she just doesn't want him to beat her any more. So that's the first piece.
In the urban areas, of course, that domestic violence is different, because the women are in a bigger community and they can go into a shelter. They can go into a transition house if those things exist, and then they can go into second-stage housing.
That's domestic violence, but I'm not hearing a lot about the systemic violence, which is what we're talking about as well: addiction, prostitution, the stigma of being an aboriginal woman, period; the fact that when aboriginal women are murdered and raped, there doesn't seem to be the same response from society as when a non-aboriginal woman is murdered, raped, or disappears. So we have that broader context that I would like to hear discussed.
Finally, there is the issue of systemic discrimination, period, that whole shame of being an aboriginal person, the double standard applied to aboriginal women versus other women. In other words, aboriginal women don't seem to matter as much or are always supposed to be prostitutes and are always supposed to be addicted, that it's the nature of aboriginal women.
There's that kind of discrimination that is going on with regard to attitudes. I would like to hear how we deal with those issues, because when you talk about domestic violence, finding a way to get shelter for a woman, finding a way to get her out of the community, finding a way to get her and her children out of that is one thing. That's one component. But what about the broader picture? We need to talk about the broader picture. How do we fix that? How do we change that?
Roseanne, you talked about educating police, city police and the RCMP, in terms of that kind of cultural education, about understanding aboriginal realities, etc. That's one piece. What do you do about the fact that society seems to have an attitude that is in itself violent towards aboriginal men and women?
I just want some response to these issues, because I haven't heard it here this morning.
We heard in Nunavut that men are angry. Aboriginal men are angry that they have been taken away from the traditional roles they have had in families. They used to be the hunter, the fisher, the guy who went out there and brought the food in, etc. Women had a role in which they kept the communities together and did all those things.
Because aboriginal men are now having to live within this non-aboriginal world in which they have to go out and find a job in a place where first and foremost they're discriminated against in terms of the jobs, they have a sense of hopelessness. They can't find work, they drop out of school, all these kinds of things that make them lose their identities and lose their sense of power, so that they have to take it out on somebody. They themselves have turned to drug addiction, and obviously violence as a response of lashing out against the powerlessness that they feel.
We heard those things, and those are such huge issues. What are the practical ways to deal with this?
Obviously one has to go back and look at aboriginal culture in itself, but we can't go back to the day when the man was the one who went out and shot and hunted to eat, because that world is gone. How does that transition take place, for an aboriginal man to be able to get a sense of worth and a sense of power within his family unit and within his community, and within the society at large, that he is seen as a worthwhile, productive, powerful, dignified human being?
Where do we go? This is like trying to swallow a horse, it's so big. How do we deal with it? I would really like to have some discussion on that, because it's a big chunk of what we're talking about, not simply domestic violence.
So who wants to go first? Roseanne?
Director of Health Program, Mi'kmaq Confederacy of Prince Edward Island
Yes, I can go first.
I agree with you in terms of how there is a difference between on reserve and off reserve. On reserve, aboriginal women may encounter violence against them, but they don't necessarily want to lose their husband, their family, all the things that matter to them.
The issue is that the woman is experiencing violence against her and she wants that to stop. The reason that a lot of women may be apprehensive about even calling the police is because they don't want to uproot their family unit. They don't want to lose all that--the community sense, for one, their family sense. All their family are in the community, and it might cause community uproar because of the husband's family. It really impacts the whole community, not just the family.
Yes, they are human beings. These are men who have a desire to have a family. They have a desire to be happy. One of the things they are having difficulty with is ensuring they have balance themselves.
Everybody needs to get their needs met. It just so happens that one of the ways a man, or anybody for that matter--it doesn't matter whether they are a man or woman--can achieve their balance is with power. When a woman feels empowerment, that's great, but how you achieve that empowerment is either negative or positive. You can achieve it on the negative side.
If a man goes home after a hard day's work and he has issues at work, he's frustrated. Dealing with anger may not be the same as going home and meditating. They go home and that's where they feel they can get their outlet, with the people they love the most. Their outlet happens to be their wife or their child. It's “get away from here”. Even though that man may love his family, that's what he's learned. Either he's learned it or he explodes...and maybe it's the one time; oftentimes it's every once in a while.
Maybe they don't have the job they want, or maybe it's not the career they're looking for. If all they're concerned about is putting food on the table--and putting food on the table may mean cleaning a ditch, making sure they do their job just to get a bit of money--where is the balance there? Is the empowerment of that man where it needs to be?
I think that's where it needs to be acknowledged that they're human beings. They don't want—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
What do you do about that? How do you deal with that? Does anyone have an answer, a suggestion? How do you help get back that empowerment, that sense of control?
Director of Health Program, Mi'kmaq Confederacy of Prince Edward Island
You don't separate the work we do with women; you include the men. The family unit is not based on the woman and the child. The family unit is based on the man, woman, and the child. Including programs and services for aboriginal men, or finding those avenues that can help direct them to get the support they need—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Are there such services? Is there a need for them? Are there any such services for men? We don't even have enough services for women. Are there services for men, at all?
Sheila, do you have something you want to add to that? Melissa?
President, Newfoundland Aboriginal Women's Network
I was just thinking about a couple of things. The work we intend to do next year is to empower the men to be part of the solution, to be role models, to go into their communities as advocates against violence.
I'm not sure if you're familiar with some TV commercials that are running in our province right now. They're very simplistic. Some have an aboriginal theme, and some are regular people, for lack of a better word. It's quite simple. You see a father and child, and it says, “You teach him to ride a bike, to tie his shoes. Teach him that all forms of violence against women are wrong.”
They're marvellous commercials. They're very simple and very powerful. They should be running across the country.