Status of Women Committee on Nov. 23rd, 2010

[Christian Ouellet, Bloc, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you for coming. I feel your being here is important.

At the outset, I would like to tell you that I am the Bloc Québécois' critic for social housing and homelessness. So I know what poverty is. And we really must come to grips with women's poverty.

In response to what Mr. Wallace just told us, being the one who relies on the number of questionnaires, I would like to ask you one thing. Will poor people—we could talk about very rich people, but I am interested in the poor people—the people in the streets answer questionnaires that are not mandatory?

I am asking you because you are responsible for social affairs.

[Katherine Scott]

Based on my understanding of the response rate of low-income Canadians to the census, there is an enormous amount of support—I think Doug and Leroy can probably speak to this—put into assisting different groups of Canadians to fill out the census at that time.

We heard last week, actually at another committee, from a researcher from Saskatchewan, who compared his work on the voluntary surveys of low-income Saskatchewan residents with the census data. The rates were quite different for those groups. In fact, the response rates among low-income groups are much higher in the case of the census. Questions pertaining to their living conditions, and their housing conditions in particular, receive a much higher response rate from those groups on the census.

[Christian Ouellet, Bloc, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

So any government can avoid taking care of the poor, especially in terms of social housing.

Mr. Norris, you said earlier that people's answers depended on whether they were from a rural or urban community and their answers were different. I personally come from a rural riding where 20 or 23% of people are mildly or severely illiterate. If these people are not forced to fill out the questionnaire, they will not do it because it is very frustrating for them to have to ask for help to fill it out.

There are some very awkward questions, almost sexual, as the government would say, for example on the number of bedrooms in the house. It is very frustrating to have to ask for help to answer a question like that. However, what is really frustrating for those people is not knowing how to write. In short, if they are not forced to say what they are experiencing, they won't do it.

What do you think about that?

[Doug Norris]

I think the evidence is in fact that people such as these, who are somewhat marginalized, would be less likely to fill out the census form. I would agree with you that they will therefore be underrepresented in a voluntary census. When it is mandatory, I think they realize, despite the struggle they have and despite their reluctance, that it is important, and as a Canadian citizen they feel they want to contribute to it. That signal of “mandatory” is sent to them, and as a result they fill it out, despite their reluctance. Without the mandatory aspect, they may feel, well, let someone else fill it out.

[Christian Ouellet, Bloc, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Norris.

Ms. Naudillon, could you tell me whether the academic and scientific communities were consulted before the government made the decision to change the census?

[Dr. Françoise Naudillon]

My answer will be quick. No, not to my knowledge. We were all taken aback by this.

[Christian Ouellet, Bloc, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

They actually come back to the same argument all the time. As a scientist, would you say that a question on the number of rooms in a house is something really annoying, which could jeopardize a person's privacy?

[Dr. Françoise Naudillon]

I always thought it was strange that we spend so much time talking about this question. All you actually have to do is go on the Internet and consult the land register to find out the name of the owner, the size of the house and the number of rooms. So it is not an intrusive question.

However, it allows us to really see what Canada's real estate heritage is, the number of rooms or square metres per person. In my opinion, this indicator is essential for determining every Canadian's level of poverty and comfort.

[Christian Ouellet, Bloc, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

So it is an indicator...

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Cathy McLeod]

Thank you.

[Christian Ouellet, Bloc, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Cathy McLeod]

Next we have Ms. Mathyssen.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I know that Mr. Wallace would want this information. The “2011 Census Content Consultation Guide” that goes out to stakeholders said absolutely nothing about eliminating the mandatory nature of the long-form census, nor did it glean any information from stakeholders about removing question 33.

I know that Mr. Wallace would want to have accurate information. My question is—

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

On a point of order—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Cathy McLeod]

Excuse me, we have a point of order first.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Is this going to interfere with my time?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Cathy McLeod]

Your time is on hold.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

No, of course not. You have as much time as you want.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

I have a copy of the presentation that was being presented by Stats Canada. It says: “The possibility of removing the unpaid work questions from the long-form census was raised in the 2011 Census content report released in July 2008”--

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Cathy McLeod]

Excuse me.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

My point of order is that she was saying it wasn't in the report. I have it that it was.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

I have it in writing that it was not.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Cathy McLeod]

Excuse me.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Well, you have it as part of the minutes of this committee.