Evidence of meeting #38 for Status of Women in the 40th Parliament, 3rd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was data.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Cathy McLeod
Excuse me. Let's have no back and forth, please.
I believe members take some liberties, and we know that our analysts are able to look at witnesses and testimonies from the past. Let's keep our questioning directly to the witnesses and use their valuable time appropriately.
Neither, I don't believe, was a point of order.
Thank you.
NDP
Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate that.
My question is to Mr. Stone. I wonder what technical testing and evaluation was done to assess the impact of removing the unpaid activity question from all national census or survey instruments in 2011.
As an Individual
I was not party to the process that led to the decision-making within Statistics Canada, but I hope my memory is correct when I say that the evaluation process consisted of the consultation that was done with various groups of users. The consultation process was the platform used.
NDP
Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON
Thank you.
There were many interesting things about all of this, and one of the most interesting has to do with the response of the public.
Madam Taillon, you talked about 370 stakeholders and organizations that spoke out because they were so profoundly concerned, but you also said there were a number of groups that did not speak out because they feared repercussions. Could you elaborate on that statement?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Council on Social Development
Certainly.
We are part of a very broad network in civil society. We also have partners in the private sector and at other levels of government. As we've been out doing work and connecting with partners, obviously this issue comes up on a regular basis. Some groups have indicated--to me, personally--their concerns. They are concerned that speaking out could have some negative repercussions because they receive funding from government or they could be working on a project with government, so they've decided to stay silent.
NDP
Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON
Their situation would be similar to those of Match, Sexual Health Network, Kairos, and organizations like that. Thank you.
I hope I have time for one last thing. Marilyn Waring, a former New Zealand Conservative MP who was commenting on the elimination of the census, said in an interview, “I see this mirrored in so many conservative governments in the post-recession period. They want to rule according to ideology, not according to evidence, so one of the most important things they can do is to obliterate evidence so they can operate on the basis of propaganda.”
Does anyone have a response to Ms. Waring?
Vice-President, Research, Canadian Council on Social Development
I think that's an astute observation. One of the things that people haven't come back to is that the decision around the long-form census is taking place in a broader context: a number of other surveys have been eliminated, and there have been significant cutbacks at Statistics Canada. The amount of analysis and actual publication of information flowing into the public domain has been significantly reduced. I have experienced that as a researcher and I know that to be the case in the public domain. We've lost the disability survey this year. We've lost a number of immigrant surveys.
These are all taken as a piece of the loss of quality of analysis that we now have to make profound economic and social decisions. It has been compromised. I think that's an important background piece for you in your consideration and deliberations in this committee.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Cathy McLeod
I actually moved to a four-minute round when we promised you the full five, so you have 40 seconds left.
NDP
Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON
I have one last question, then, in terms of recommendations. Obviously we're going to look at all of the evidence, but what recommendations should this committee be forwarding? Should, for example, Statistics Canada report back to this committee about findings after the 2011 census data collection?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Council on Social Development
I think the one key issue, given the mandate of this committee, is to have question 33 not only re-added but also expanded. I think this is very critical. Given the mandate of this committee, I think that's a key recommendation.
Conservative
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for ruling my point of order out of order.
I just want to be clear to the committee. I am looking at the speaking notes from the Standing Committee on the Status of Women for November 16, 2011. They express thanks for inviting Statistics Canada to speak to the committee, introduce who they are, and--
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
In their presentation to this committee--and you can look it up for yourselves--part of the presentation says, “The possibility of removing the unpaid work questions from the long-form census was raised in the 2011 content report released in July 2008”, and it goes on and talks about it. That's where I got my information, and it's part of the record of the committee.
I don't mind being accused of misleading, but when the accusation is wrong, I like to point that out, so there you go.
My question for you, Mr. Norris, is on bias. You said--and we've heard it from others too--that the national survey may have some built-in bias if certain groups don't answer the survey. I would tend to agree that there's a possibility that those in the higher income levels may not be that excited about the survey. I'm not as convinced that those who are at other income levels or in other statuses are going to be less likely.
There was bias in the census previously. I don't know the number off the top of my head, but there were, for example, a number of people who answered the religion question by saying that they were Jedi knights, so there were built-in issues in terms of bias or inaccurate information regardless of whether the survey was mandatory or not. Would you agree with that?
Representative, Senior Vice-President and Chief Demographer, Environics Analytics, Marketing Research and Intelligence Association
Certain errors always come into a census, for many reasons. A small number of people may, as you say, report being Jedi, but the feeling of the census experts is that those numbers are relatively small. Overall, yes, there is theoretically bias, but it really doesn't affect, for example, the trends in the information we get.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
Your organization, Marketing Research and Intelligence Association, is an association. It's made up of people who are in the survey business, I'm assuming, people who buy survey information. Who is your membership?
Representative, Senior Vice-President and Chief Demographer, Environics Analytics, Marketing Research and Intelligence Association
There are two parts. There are survey researchers who carry out research, surveys, and other kinds of research for governments, the private sector, and non-profit organizations. There are also the businesses that use the data. For example, some of Canada's large and small businesses are members as users of the information.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
Would your members who are in the survey business consider the work they do to be inaccurate?
Representative, Senior Vice-President and Chief Demographer, Environics Analytics, Marketing Research and Intelligence Association
No. I think that overall they feel the work they do is fairly accurate.