Evidence of meeting #42 for Status of Women in the 40th Parliament, 3rd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was changes.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Bloc
Luc Desnoyers Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
You will be keeping the words impunity and justice, and you will require your partners to champion these causes in the field. Is that right?
Director General, Strategic Planning and Performance Reporting Directorate, Canadian International Development Agency
I cannot answer that question.
Bloc
Luc Desnoyers Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
For example, CIDA deals with OXFAM and MATCH in the field. There are some rapes. Oh, you no longer deal with MATCH! That's too bad, it was an excellent organization.
In the field, the partners you work with will continue to use a different vocabulary. You say that it is purely cosmetic. The words that Ms. Breton-Le Goff mentioned and those used by the government you report to are interchangeable.
Director General, Strategic Planning and Performance Reporting Directorate, Canadian International Development Agency
The only answer I can give you is that any of our partners' programs that are in keeping with CIDA's thematic priorities and strategies will be treated in the same way, regardless of terminology.
Bloc
Luc Desnoyers Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
So you will see to it that your vocabulary changes. In the field, the language will vary from one party to the next. You are a major spokesperson and you will be using a different vocabulary. I mean, you will not be using the terms “impunity” and “justice”, among other things, isn't that right?
Director General, Strategic Planning and Performance Reporting Directorate, Canadian International Development Agency
No, I cannot confirm that.
Bloc
Luc Desnoyers Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
So you will not be keeping step with government statements.
Michel Bélec Acting Executive Director and General Counsel, Head of Legal Services, Canadian International Development Agency
If I may, I believe that the substance of your question is political and has less to do with everyday operations.
Bloc
Luc Desnoyers Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Normally, CIDA takes instruction from the government on how to deal with its partners. It's the government that provides the money. The government may be heading in a certain direction, but you say that it's interchangeable and purely cosmetic. Ms. Le Goff and other speakers have said there was a major change in vocabulary, but you are saying that isn't true. That suggests that in the field, you are going to continue to champion the cause of women, you are going to talk about impunity, you are going to talk about justice, and that is quite different from the language the government is using.
Acting Executive Director and General Counsel, Head of Legal Services, Canadian International Development Agency
I can tell you that as we speak, as Ms. Leclerc said before, there has been no policy change, there has been no deliberate change in terminology by CIDA. We have said that since 1999, the terms have been used interchangeably, without any intention of setting off in a new direction.
Bloc
Luc Desnoyers Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
You talk about interchangeable terms. That means that the terms used by the government, which is getting rid of the word “gender” and replacing it with “men and women”, are interchangeable.
Acting Executive Director and General Counsel, Head of Legal Services, Canadian International Development Agency
I can tell you that...
Acting Executive Director and General Counsel, Head of Legal Services, Canadian International Development Agency
Look...
Acting Executive Director and General Counsel, Head of Legal Services, Canadian International Development Agency
I repeat, there is no change in CIDA's policy, there is no statutory change.
Bloc
Luc Desnoyers Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Do you acknowledge that the words currently being used in speeches could eventually lead to a change at CIDA?
Acting Executive Director and General Counsel, Head of Legal Services, Canadian International Development Agency
That is a political question and I cannot answer it.
Bloc
Luc Desnoyers Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Ms. Le Goff, you had a lot to say about the Belgian plan, the Australian plan, I would like...
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Mr. Desnoyers, we've run out of time. I'm sorry about that. I think we may be able to do another round so you can have a chance.
Ms. Mathyssen is next, please, for the NDP.
NDP
Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I feel like as though we're going in circles here. There is discussion about changes in language and interchangeable words. Have there been changes in terms of CIDA practices?
I'm thinking, for example, of a discussion we had in this committee about child and maternal health and the fact that there was a definite change of policy in regard to the use of family planning. First of all, there was to be no contraception, and then that changed. Then the minister said that there was to be no use of funding for abortion. That seems to have gone into the ether as well.
So we have this argument about language and practice, and there doesn't seem to be any sort of resolution to the argument, other than the fact that I'm still mystified that “[s]ome of the changes suggested by oMINA are more than simply stylistic changes”, which causes me concern, as I said.
When I reflect back to child and maternal health, there were policy changes. There were changes in terms of practice on the ground—or at least, the government announced that. Should we not be concerned about further changes in policy and practice?
Director General, Strategic Planning and Performance Reporting Directorate, Canadian International Development Agency
Thank you for your question. I'm not sure that this question is relevant to the topic for which we're here to testify in terms of changes in terminology--
NDP
Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON
I'm sorry. I think it is. Because we hear very clearly that language is significant, that it determines how a country behaves and what its policies and practices will be in the international realm, and here, I've cited the example of child and maternal health. The way we behave on the international scene is reflected by what we say.
We take our direction from the ministers of the crown. They send signals to departments, very clear signals, in terms of what they say and how they say it.
I feel very strongly that we need to come to terms with that, and we're simply not coming to terms with it. We're going around in a circle and I simply want clarification.
On child and maternal health, the government sent signals by its use of language, and things changed. We fought about it all spring. So it is important, and I would like to know what kinds of policy changes are in the works. What can we expect in the future?
Director General, Strategic Planning and Performance Reporting Directorate, Canadian International Development Agency
I could not speak to upcoming policy changes. The terminology involving “gender equality” and “equality between women and men” did not bring about changes in our current policy.
NDP
Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON
And were there no changes to the policy around child and maternal health?