Status of Women Committee on Jan. 21st, 2011

[Dr. Sandra Lambertus]

I do think that's a problem. I would strongly advocate the reinstatement of that long-form census. It's critical information.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

Muriel, in the meetings we have held, we have heard a lot about how difficult it is for aboriginal women to make any progress, even when they are educated and have the opportunity to go to college or university. We were told that they had to break through a kind of wolfskin ceiling, and that was harder for them than for those of us whose ceiling was glass. They said that they were stuck in conditions and in jobs that did not let them advance.

Could you tell me a little more about that?

[Muriel Stanley Venne]

An example, a real example, was Linda Bull, a professor at Athabasca University in this province. She was accused of shoplifting in the Safeway. She was so shocked and so disillusioned, and so angry and so frustrated. They eventually apologized to her, because of course it was nonsense, but they said it was a case of mistaken identity. So all they went on was her appearance.

You know, as an advocate with the Institute for the Advancement of Aboriginal Women, it shouldn't surprise me, although it always has, that in cases where an aboriginal woman was found dead...or where, as this happened, the police beat this woman. I thought, well, this can't happen. It shouldn't happen. Then I took a look at her picture. I think the element of how Indian you look is very important. If you don't look really Indian, you get better treatment.

[The Acting Chair, Conservative, Dona Cadman]

Thank you.

Next we have Madam Grewal.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to all of you for coming out and sharing your experiences with us. I just want to let you know and reassure you again that our government considers the ending of violence their top priority. Since 2007, through Status of Women Canada, the government has funded almost 150 projects across Canada. That totals almost $28.7 million. That work is to eliminate violence against women.

So we are supporting prevention and providing shelters on reserves and funding victims services. We want to ensure that the justice system also meets the needs of aboriginal women and their families.

To each one of you, are there any legal reforms or legislative changes that you guys can recommend and that we can carry forward?

Let's start with Sandra.

[Dr. Sandra Lambertus]

I found that the outcomes of the processes of cases and investigations going to the crown were reliant on judges who too frequently gave the perpetrators of the crimes benefits of the doubt.

Both the aboriginal women I interviewed and certainly a lot of people in the helping professions identified that this sends a strong signal to the women, to the perpetrators, and to the community. So one of the findings was that judges need to be trained about the impacts, the long-term impacts, of their decisions. Not that we have to tell them what to decide, but they need to be very aware of what happens in aboriginal communities when perpetrators are not asked to be accountable.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Jennifer.

[Prof. Jennifer Koshan]

I agree that judicial education is key. We've talked a lot about education of police and so on, but I think because judges obviously play such a huge role in the justice system, they also need to receive specialized training and education on violence against aboriginal women.

I go back to the same point I've made before, that whatever law reforms and legal changes we look at, or, even beyond that, every time a new law on violence is being considered by the Government of Canada, the law has to be considered with the perspective of aboriginal women in mind. So aboriginal women always have to have a seat at the table to be able to discuss specifically what those changes in the law are going to mean for them and what sort of impact they are going to have.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Muriel.

[Muriel Stanley Venne]

I'm pleased to agree on the screening of judges—and they should be screened before they become judges—and also police officers in recruiting. Especially police officers should be screened as to their prejudices and their biases and their discrimination against aboriginal women.

We did research with the Edmonton Police Service and the RCMP, and we asked them very simple questions about whether they had taken training, and of course they hadn't.

The Edmonton Police Service changed our survey, which made the survey invalid, because they weren't the same questions. They changed it despite our protests, and one of the respondents told us to save our money and give it to the Indians on welfare, because we couldn't even do a survey. In some ways it did us a favour, because it brought out the racism against us.

But this can be found out in the screening process. You can find out the prejudices at every level, and that may be one of the concrete ways in which the government at all levels can address racism.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Madam Chair, do I have more time left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have about two more minutes.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

The rest of my time, Madam Chair, I'll pass on to my colleague, Dona.

Dona, you can ask some questions.

[Dona Cadman, Conservative, Surrey North, BC]

Okay.

I was thinking that no woman—aboriginal, white, yellow, brown, pink, purple—should have to live in fear of rape or abuse. Now, you say you want the money to go to the communities. Do these communities have something, a group that is there for aboriginal women, about them, for them, and run by them? Are there such services that this money could go to in these communities?

[Muriel Stanley Venne]

Oh, I'm so glad you asked that question. No, there aren't, because of the lack of funding at the regional level. The money all goes to the national organizations.

[Dona Cadman, Conservative, Surrey North, BC]

So the national organizations are not giving you your money. Is that it?

[Muriel Stanley Venne]

Oh, no. We never.... That's totally unreasonable for them to give us money, and I mean that in every—

[Dona Cadman, Conservative, Surrey North, BC]

Well, aren't they supposed to?

[Muriel Stanley Venne]

No.

[Donna Cadman]

Why not?

[Muriel Stanley Venne]

Because the rule of the government is that only the national organizations will be funded.

[Dona Cadman, Conservative, Surrey North, BC]

So any little organization will not be?

[Muriel Stanley Venne]

Well, the Institute for the Advancement of Aboriginal Women has been pleading and asking for stable funding, core funding, any kind of stable funding that will keep our doors open, because we have 16 chapters, but one of the greatest difficulties we face is that we have projects. Projects, projects, projects. So the project starts, we have to write the proposal, we do the work, we write a report, and then we can't get the same project. We can't continue what we started. We are constantly being told that, you know, the criteria have now changed. So they do not respect the aboriginal women's organizations such as ours to be able to address the needs, and we can do it. We can do it.

What has happened is that we have a project, we go out to the women, and we talk to them. We get them all involved and so on, and then our project ends and then we have to dream up something else or do something else. That is an absolutely direct message to the present government, and it was done by the Liberal government too. It stops us from becoming, as I said before, full citizens. We do this dance. We contort ourselves into all kinds of shapes to receive money on a project. So if we could look at a 10-year-plan, as we have declared the Decade of Difference for aboriginal women—which is included in my report—if we could look at some stability in which we could build the confidence in the communities and work with the women, they wouldn't go into the justice system. They wouldn't be arrested by the police. They're definitely afraid of the police, and the police are not their friends. It's the way it is. All the statistics prove that to you.

I think the wonderful thing would be to review the whole way in which aboriginal women are funded, direct them to the organizations that can reach them in the communities, because it's not good enough just to have a community organization. You have to have the leadership at the top to bring information, share information, work with the women, and have the confidence of the women. That's what's missing.

[Dona Cadman, Conservative, Surrey North, BC]

Do you have one lady—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Your time is up. Thank you.

Now I will go to Ms. Crowder for the NDP.