Evidence of meeting #51 for Status of Women in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was family.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Sergeant Mike Bartkus  Domestic Offender Crimes Section, Edmonton Police Service
Josie Nepinak  Executive Director, Awo Taan Healing Lodge Society
Donald Langford  Executive Director, Métis Child and Family Services Society
Jo-Anne Hansen  Representative, Little Warriors
Nancy Leake  Criminal Intelligence Analyst, Serious Crimes Branch, Edmonton Police Service
Kari Thomason  Community Outreach Worker, Métis Child and Family Services Society
Bill Spinks  Serious Crime Branch, Edmonton Police Service
Jo-Anne Fiske  Professor of Women's Studies, University of Lethbridge, As an Individual
Suzanne Dzus  Founder and Chairperson, Memorial March for Missing and Murdered Women Calgary
Superintendent Mike Sekela  Criminal Operations Officer, "D" Division, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
April Wiberg  Founder, Stolen Sisters Awareness Walk and Movement
Gloria Neapetung  Representative, Stolen Sisters Awareness Walk and Movement
Sandra Lambertus  Author, As an Individual
Jennifer Koshan  Professor, University of Calgary, As an Individual
Muriel Stanley Venne  President and Founder, Institute for the Advancement of Aboriginal Women

8:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Acting Chair Conservative Dona Cadman

I'm sorry, but your time is up. I know; it's so hard, isn't it?

Now we go to Madam Demers from the Bloc Québécois.

Go ahead, Nicole, whenever you feel ready.

8:45 a.m.

Bloc

Nicole Demers Bloc Laval, QC

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thanks very much to our witnesses for being here today. This is our last stop, but probably the most emotional. I do not know if whether it is the fatigue, or whether we have seen so many people, but I know that you have played a part in it, Ms. Hansen. Your song put us all on an equal footing this morning. You opened our hearts. If we really want to solve the problem of violence against aboriginal women, I believe that we will not do so with our heads but with our hearts. Because of you, we are speaking from our hearts now, not from our heads, and I thank you for that.

Mr. Langford, I appreciated your testimony very much. But, at the same time, I despair when I see that children who were involved in prostitution 10 years ago are still involved in it today. What makes 14- and 15-year-old children become involved in prostitution, and stay involved, for such a long time? Why is there no way out of this problem? Why?

8:45 a.m.

Kari Thomason Community Outreach Worker, Métis Child and Family Services Society

There is. We do have a program called PSECA, which is to try to disengage the individuals out of prostitution. But the sad, unfortunate reality is that we have girls who are second and third generation from family members coming down, and for a lot of them, because of the high capacity of sexual abuse they endured at very young ages, the horrible attitude and concept in their world is, “I never had an opportunity. I never said I wanted to lose my virginity. I did not want to become a prostitute. But when you're violated over and over again, you might as well start to charge for it rather than give it away for free.”

That was the mentality. We've reshaped it in many forms where those gals who started at such a young age unfortunately just could not shake the whole reality of being able to square up their lives. It was a scary world, and they felt there was very little support. But we do have programs to help our underage ones, and also the over-18 ones, the program that I assist with running as well.

Many of these gals don't feel they're worth enough to be anything other than working out on the streets and being degraded. Many of them don't believe they're worthy of getting compliments, worthy of being treated with respect. So it's something that we as a group are constantly doing, reinforcing that they need self-empowerment. It's extremely detrimental within their teachings...so we do have many capacities where we intervene.

It's not always under an arrest where we deal with these women. When we are doing the streets it's literally to see how they are doing--if there have been any bad dates, if there have been any occurrences of violence.

The changeover has been overwhelming. I will honestly say that 10 years ago we never had women reporting bad dates. There was a trust factor between the police and the individuals who were working. Literally we have built a bridge where the officers are being requested by the working girls who have been assaulted, saying that there is enough trust now that they are actually reporting bad dates to them. Where we never had that 10 years ago, we have an overabundance now, which is self-empowering.

For the women who do leave, we have peer supports on those nights of operational and non-operational nights to let the girls know, “Yes, you are worthy. You can make it. I did.”

So we do have success cases, but unfortunately for those who....you know, their demise was unfortunately met out there. I personally have two family members who are still missing. We are presuming that they've been killed, or that they're no longer with us, due to the lifestyle of prostitution.

8:50 a.m.

Bloc

Nicole Demers Bloc Laval, QC

Thank you.

Ms. Nepinak, what form would you like to see a multidisciplinary approach take?

8:50 a.m.

Executive Director, Awo Taan Healing Lodge Society

Josie Nepinak

Thank you for the question. That would include health care, justice, shelter, a cultural program, and education. That would include systems that have historically been involved with aboriginal people, including our spiritual leaders in our communities as well, and the development of a comprehensive strategy to address the areas.

We do have a medical clinic right in our facility, and one of the issues we have seen at Awo Taan in Calgary is that of the women who are coming into the shelter, 75% have not seen a medical doctor in six months. We have children who have not been immunized. We have multiple health issues involving ear, throat, nose, upper respiratory, gastrointestinal. So a multidisciplinary approach would include all of those areas. Another piece would be around the research.

The issue of family violence is very broad, and I think as far as identifying what the need is goes, it's safe to say there are many at the moment. But it is such a huge issue, how do we then chunk the work out so that it is possible to do it?

8:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Acting Chair Conservative Dona Cadman

Time's up. I'm sorry.

Now we go to Ms. Grewal from the Conservatives.

January 21st, 2011 / 8:50 a.m.

Conservative

Nina Grewal Conservative Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

Thank you, Madam Chair, and I would like to thank all the witnesses for their time.

My question goes to the RCMP. As you know, the family prevention initiative is a long-term commitment of the Government of Canada to address violence within relationships of kinship, intimacy, dependency, or trust, and the Public Health Agency of Canada leads and coordinates the FVI, the family violence initiative, which leads and coordinates with the 15 partners or departments. I think the RCMP is also a part of this initiative. I would like to know more about your work concerning the family prevention initiative.

8:50 a.m.

S/Sgt Mike Bartkus

We're with the Edmonton Police Service. I'll just correct you on that piece.

This is a federal program you're speaking about?

8:50 a.m.

Conservative

Nina Grewal Conservative Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

Yes, it's a federal program.

8:50 a.m.

S/Sgt Mike Bartkus

And it's the family...sorry?

8:55 a.m.

Conservative

Nina Grewal Conservative Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

It's the family violence initiative. So it's the family prevention initiative coordinated all over Canada. I just want to know something more about what you are doing.

8:55 a.m.

S/Sgt Mike Bartkus

We work on a provincial level with our counterparts in a police advisory committee that addresses family violence issues on a regular basis. We're always looking at ways and means of enhancing the acts that we work under and bringing in more advocacy and collaboration from other agencies. It's a work in progress, but we are a part of that. We partner with the people we need to partner with, and we speak on a provincial level, and we speak on a national level. So for the people who are involved in this type of work, it's a close-knit community. We all obviously have the same sorts of issues and problems that we deal with on a regular basis, on a national level. So best practices are shared, and obviously work continues. We're in it for the long term.

8:55 a.m.

Conservative

Nina Grewal Conservative Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

I see.

My other question is to the RCMP. I understand that part of the problem we have is the lack of national data on aboriginal violence, as you have stated before. But is there a way we can address not having that data?

8:55 a.m.

Criminal Intelligence Analyst, Serious Crimes Branch, Edmonton Police Service

Nancy Leake

We don't have the availability of the race information, but it is something we're recognizing. Even though some may view it as a prejudicial measure for officers to collect that information when investigating, it is an important piece of information that helps us support the marginalized groups of people in the right way--by knowing who they identify with, what race they identify with. Right now we're just trying to figure out the best strategy as a police service to try to collect that information, without giving any offence to people, but making them realize that it is for the support we would like to offer them.

8:55 a.m.

Conservative

Nina Grewal Conservative Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

Madam Chair, is there more time left?

8:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Acting Chair Conservative Dona Cadman

You have a lot of time.

8:55 a.m.

Conservative

Nina Grewal Conservative Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

I see.

Then here is my question for all of you: what's the main root of family violence?

8:55 a.m.

Executive Director, Awo Taan Healing Lodge Society

Josie Nepinak

Thank you.

On the main root, the research and the literature support the fact that colonization and assimilation policies have contributed greatly to the issue of family violence in our aboriginal communities. Colonization, as we know, is the forced destruction--for lack of better words, I guess--of aboriginal families and forcing children into residential schools as well. Residential schools have stripped away the spirit of the child--or have attempted to--in removing that child from, in many cases, a nurturing and loving environment.

We see the multi-generational legacy of the residential school. For example, I am a fourth-generation person who has been impacted by the residential school, but I have, however, built up some resilience to the issue.

In addition, policies, programs, and supports for aboriginal families have not met the issues in a way that is conducive to promoting family functioning, healing, and wellness in our aboriginal communities.

Up until recently, aboriginal women have not had culturally appropriate services for family violence in this country. Awo Taan Healing Lodge in Calgary has in the past 20 years developed programming that is framed from within what we call a “western” methodology as well as a cultural enrichment program. By combining the two interventions, we're finding that aboriginal women and their families--and their partners--are healing and moving towards a more violence-free life.

8:55 a.m.

Conservative

Nina Grewal Conservative Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

Do any others have any thoughts?

8:55 a.m.

Executive Director, Métis Child and Family Services Society

Donald Langford

I think the biggest thing right now is poverty.

I think this is a great sitting, because my boarding school, when I was in care, was just kitty-corner from here. Ironically, that's where they built children's services.

I come from a family of residential school survivors. My wife went into residential school when she was six and came out at 14. I think the thing is that it's continuing today with the apprehensions and foster care.

Personally, I can relate to these children, because once you are apprehended, no matter how your family is and whatnot, you do feel that sense of abandonment. You feel that sense of betrayal. You feel that sense of loss. Ironically, all of these kids in care, when they finally age out, go home. So something is wrong with that picture. They have to quit apprehending our kids and they have to start working with our families.

It's in those families where the family violence starts. It's frustration. It's poverty. It's addictions. You know, you use what you've got.... And they're all depressed.

9 a.m.

Conservative

The Acting Chair Conservative Dona Cadman

Thank you, Ms. Grewal.

9 a.m.

Conservative

Nina Grewal Conservative Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

I'll give a chance to someone else.

9 a.m.

Conservative

The Acting Chair Conservative Dona Cadman

Now we'll go to the NDP, with Ms. Jean Crowder.

9 a.m.

NDP

Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC

Thank you, Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses. I particularly want to thank Ms. Hansen. I think Ms. Demers is absolutely correct that one of the ways we can perhaps open another door is through music. The information we're being presented with is not new information. What you are telling us, we're hearing.... I haven't been part of the panel, but I'm the aboriginal affairs critic for the NDP, and of course I'm very familiar with the issues around violence against aboriginal women. One of the things that often gets left out of this conversation, and you have mentioned it, is that violence against aboriginal women is not just against aboriginal women; it's against children, it's against the families, and it's against all the relatives. One of you talked about codependency. The stats on codependency, of course, say that for every person who is touched, there are at least seven other people who are influenced by this.

Ms. Nepinak touched on the issues around assimilation, colonialism, and cultural genocide. Mr. Langford added to that by talking about foster care. Many people believe that what we are actually doing is continuing that pattern of assimilation, colonialism, and cultural genocide through the foster care system. For the province where I live, British Columbia, 52% of the children in care are aboriginal children. And we know about the overrepresentation in prison of aboriginal people, particularly in western Canada.

With those depressing stats, what I'd like to do is ask each organization to tell the committee of one or two key things that you think are immediate and pressing that we need to take on.

I'll start with Ms. Hansen.

9 a.m.

Representative, Little Warriors

Jo-Anne Hansen

Like I said before, the two issues that I think stem from residential schools--I have to agree with my colleagues--is that we have codependency issues. That means that here we have children in residential schools who were stripped of their identity, their culture, and their language. The other part of it is the bullying issue.