Evidence of meeting #72 for Status of Women in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was home.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:15 p.m.
As an Individual
I would prefer to stay in my own home and not have my son experience what he did. At the same time, there needs to be protection, because even if I stay in the home, there will be no guarantee that I won't be harmed in some way.
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
Wai Young Conservative Vancouver South, BC
This legislation also provides for an emergency protection order so that you will be protected. In addition to that, this legislation provides for a centre of excellence to be created, so that centre will be available and will have resources for all the different bands across Canada, to help them develop their own legislation on reserve. So your band could develop its own legislation to resolve the situation, or put in place some specific family act within your reserve to address the situation you're in.
12:15 p.m.
NDP
The Chair NDP Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe
Thank you.
We'll have to stop here.
We now move to Ms. Ashton, for seven minutes.
12:15 p.m.
NDP
Niki Ashton NDP Churchill, MB
Thank you.
Thank you very much, Ms. Manitowabi and Ms. Courchene, for sharing a very difficult part of your lives, and even more so in public.
I do want to be clear that for us in the NDP there's no question that there is a gap when it comes to what indigenous women on reserve—because that's what we're talking about—can access. I think both of you alluded to the fact that we need to look at issues like access to housing, access to shelters, access to police to enforce an emergency protection order so that there is that kind of enforcement. Particularly women, and your children and their children, need it most.
We're here to do the best we can. It's not just about putting forward a piece of legislation without looking at those options.
One of the concerns raised has been that first nations haven't been listened to on a nation-to-nation basis.
Ms. Courchene, I had the opportunity to connect with the chief in Sagkeeng, somebody I've worked with on other issues. I'm wondering whether he has raised, or, in your experience, whether any of the counsellors have raised, the lack of consultation directly with Sagkeeng or with other first nations when it comes to this bill.
12:20 p.m.
NDP
Niki Ashton NDP Churchill, MB
No worries. I'm just wondering. One of the things that the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs...one of the things that I've heard from first nations in our area of Manitoba anyway is the lack of consultation. Because Sagkeeng has its own land code, unlike other bands that have different scenarios...obviously, there needs to be a discussion to incorporate that approach. There's no funding for the band for transitioning into this piece of legislation. There's no aid in terms of legal advice to have a better transition. That's one of the concerns that many first nations have been raising.
I'll just move on to another issue that I think both of you raised. It's the situation around not just access to your own house, but the opportunity to live elsewhere on reserve. I'm wondering what the housing situation is with your first nations. Is there a lack of housing? If there is, how extensive is it?
12:20 p.m.
As an Individual
There's a lack of affordable housing in our community. I was really lucky—this doesn't happen very often. Another band member was selling his home, so I went and got a mortgage to get that house. I had to go through the band council to get a BCR. This was later in 2007, the same year I was thrown out of my house.
People in the community were saying things like “Just make sure it's in your own name” and “Now you have your own house”, comments like that. And I was thinking it wasn't fair that I was paying for another house. But they just didn't understand.
The thing is, no one talks about it. When you're dealing with this as your own quiet crisis, you don't know what's true or valid, and you second-guess yourself on everything. It was just a really clouded time for me.
I'm glad I was able to find help through all of that during those years. People stuck with me, and that helped to validate the truth of the matter for some things. That helped me, and I'm doing a lot better.
12:20 p.m.
NDP
Niki Ashton NDP Churchill, MB
I don't know, Ms. Courchene, if you want to add something about the housing situation.
12:20 p.m.
As an Individual
It's just like any other community—there's a lack of housing everywhere. I can't speak for our leaders, because they're not here. But I do see that there are families who need homes. It's probably not their fault, but it's really hard to find homes.
Even me finding a place in Powerview, that was really rare. If somebody is renting out their house in the community, you're in line with 500 other people trying to find somewhere to live.
12:20 p.m.
NDP
Niki Ashton NDP Churchill, MB
The chief told me that in Sagkeeng there's a shortage of 500 to 600 houses.
12:20 p.m.
NDP
Niki Ashton NDP Churchill, MB
What about access to legal aid or mediation? I know it's something that is more accessible in urban centres or under provincial jurisdiction. In your experience, how easy was it to access legal help?
12:20 p.m.
As an Individual
I went through a few lawyers, for various reasons. They all did what they could to help me, but they could only take it so far. I was worried about missing the two-year deadline. I didn't have a lawyer at that time, so I filed a civil suit and proceeded to represent myself. I had no idea what I was doing. Anyway, eventually I was able to find a lawyer to help me. He helped me throughout.
12:25 p.m.
NDP
The Chair NDP Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe
Sorry to interrupt you, but your time is up. Thank you, Madam Ashton.
Now we'll go to Madam Ambler. You have seven minutes.
April 30th, 2013 / 12:25 p.m.
Conservative
Stella Ambler Conservative Mississauga South, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you both, Rolanda and Jennifer, for being here today.
We can all see how difficult it is for you to tell us your stories. I absolutely admire your strength and your courage for being here. I know it's a public place.
Jennifer, you said you'd never told your story to so many people all in one place, and I bet the same holds true for Rolanda. We really appreciate it. We know it's difficult, and we thank you so much.
The reason this helps us, and why we're thanking you today for coming, is it makes us, as politicians and parliamentarians, recognize that we can talk about what we're doing here, we can talk about every aspect of the legislation in an impersonal way, but when we see you and we hear your stories...we all want this legislation to pass because we know that we won't see any more people going forward—any more women—who have the same problems that you do. It's women and children, because not only did you suffer for many years because of this problem with the law as it is—or because it doesn't exist—but your children suffered as well. That's very apparent.
Just in the last hour, the Congress of Aboriginal Peoples' vice-chief told us that they look at this as an equality issue. They don't believe that making this equal for women on reserves and giving them this right in any way takes away other rights from indigenous people as a whole.
I want to ask you if, based on whatever knowledge you have of this bill, you want to see it pass in Canada's House of Commons because you think it will help other women in the future not have to go through what you went through.
12:25 p.m.
As an Individual
Absolutely, I'd like to see this bill pass.
I'd also like to see more advocacy for what's needed for the first nations leadership in all communities. I know they're doing the best they can, and perhaps there are ways that communities can also help the men in the community with shifting attitudes, thoughts, and societal beliefs.
We all need support to become who we're really supposed to be, so that we can serve our communities and our society better.
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
Stella Ambler Conservative Mississauga South, ON
Well said.
To add to your point, I believe that if men and women had equal rights, it would help.
Your ex-husband seemed, from what you told us, to know from the very beginning that you would never have access to that home if anything happened to the two of you and to your relationship.
Would you say that perhaps throughout the marriage he acted accordingly?
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
Stella Ambler Conservative Mississauga South, ON
He said, “I know I can kick her out, I can leave her, I can leave my family, and I've got nothing to lose.”
I think, Jennifer, your situation sounded the same. These men know there's nothing they have to pay for. They can make a decision like this that can affect you and your children and never have to pay for it. There are no consequences for them.
That's not a question, but feel free to comment.
12:25 p.m.
As an Individual
It definitely would have helped. I know it will help.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Stella Ambler Conservative Mississauga South, ON
We heard Ms. Ashton asking about consultation. You may not know that we've had many years of consultations on this; we've spent many millions of dollars—$8 million—and had 103 meetings and consultations about this in 76 different communities across Canada. There have been four reports and three parliamentary studies telling us as MPs that it's time to pass a law giving women these rights on reserves.
Just knowing that, would you say that we need to talk more about it? Do we need to consult more with people, with chiefs and with first nations, or would you say to just get on with it?
12:30 p.m.
As an Individual
I think everybody needs to be consulted. In order to get support from our leaders, they would need to be consulted. For them to support me, somebody has to support them, right? It goes around. It has already been more than 10 years that we've not been able to live in our home.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Stella Ambler Conservative Mississauga South, ON
We've been talking about this for longer than that.
12:30 p.m.
As an Individual
Really? If it was in place, we wouldn't have paid over $80,000 in somebody else's mortgage.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Stella Ambler Conservative Mississauga South, ON
The first report of the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry of Manitoba asked politicians and Parliament to immediately address the issue. That was in 1991.