Evidence of meeting #107 for Status of Women in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was run.
A recording is available from Parliament.
As an Individual
Absolutely.
Again, I don't like the idea of our painting a picture of the perfect woman in politics, just as I don't like the idea of painting a picture of a perfect member of Parliament.
In my mind, growing up as someone who's loved politics since grade 5, the ideal member of Parliament was the person who was passionate about it and represented their constituents the best. That person doesn't have a particular face, name, gender, colour of skin, background, or an income bracket.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
In terms of a woman running for politics, then, we've established that women of with sorts of backgrounds, belief systems, and values should be welcome to run, as long as there's a passion and a drive to serve the general public.
Are there certain roles within that elected office for which some women are just inappropriate?
As an Individual
If you're referring to, say, a cabinet position or a parliamentary secretary position, which I think is what you're alluding to, then, yes, just as there are unqualified men who shouldn't be cabinet ministers or parliamentary secretaries.
I firmly believe in a merit-based system and and that we have the best person for the position, again, regardless of gender. I acknowledge the fact that women may have to work harder to get equal recognition among their peers in some cases, but I feel that in many cases...especially with the women we have now in the House. We have women with fantastic resumés and incredible backgrounds who can earn those positions in cabinet and parliamentary secretary positions, based solely on merit. That is very easy to distinguish.
Of course, there are people who shouldn't be cabinet ministers or parliamentary secretaries—those who don't necessarily have the qualifications, or the resumés that would qualify them for the position. If we give those people positions based on their gender, then we're diminishing the merit of people who are perhaps in a better situation to earn and have those positions.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
Thank you.
In terms of those women who are elected and occupying a public role right now, what should their success be measured by? When the general public look at those women and the way they function in their role, how would they understand whether or not their member is being effective?
As an Individual
Very quickly, I think we look at it in two situations. If you're looking simply at a member of Parliament, you look at how well they representing their constituents. If you're looking at a cabinet minister, you look at how well or effectively the public can trust them to do their job. Again, I think this doesn't depend so much on gender as effectiveness and capability. For example, if you have someone in the position of foreign affairs who has no background in foreign affairs, who hasn't even taken a class on it, then perhaps we should question that. There are many people, men and women alike, who have appropriate backgrounds to be successful, and in the public view can do a good job.
Conservative
NDP
Anne Minh-Thu Quach NDP Salaberry—Suroît, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I would like to thank both of you for being with us today. What you're saying is very interesting.
You both talked about the language barriers that make women feel judged even before they have had a chance to express themselves or intervene. We often hear about intellectual self-defence courses. Should the courses you have taken be made more available to young women and women of all ages who intend to run for office?
When we are the object of comments that are a little provocative or very cutting, whether about our clothing, our physical appearance or our emotions, it is difficult to answer them on the fly. Sometimes we freeze and don't know how to react.
Maybe there's some kind of social blindness. When others around hear such comments, they don't react either and watch how the person being commented on will react. If she doesn't react, they'll just ignore it and pretend they didn't hear anything.
Do you have any comments on that, Ms. Erickson?
As an Individual
I think that training is really important. We know that women in Canada are far more likely to agree with a statement like, “Sometimes politics and government seem too complicated for a person like me to really understand what's going on.” I think by having training sessions.... I'll use the example of the Canadian Women Voters Congress campaign schools again. These are collaborative, non-partisan spaces where women are coming together to learn about issues around media training, for example, because we know that the media has a very biased view of women in the way it talks about women. Therefore you need to be prepared for when that happens. What are the strategies that women are employing when we do get asked a question that is based on our appearance or, for example, when we're called a “climate Barbie” and we're reduced to the colour of our hair?
Learning how to respond from the other women who have experienced that type of harassment and those types of comments, I think, is really important. It makes women feel more confident that they are able to then also handle those types of comments, because you know, undoubtedly, that it is going to be directed at them at some point in their career. So, there are issues around that.
Another issue is talking about party financing and really starting to get into what it means to run for politics and providing women with the resources and support they need to be successful, because I think that women are passionate about politics. I think it's just very hard to see yourself in a political position when we know that women are so vastly under-represented in our political institutions.
NDP
As an Individual
Certainly.
I don't disagree with the idea of having non-partisan spaces where women can collectively share their experiences within politics—their hopes, their dreams, their fears. I think those can be very positive forces for women. That said, when we talk about training, it's a question for me, at least, of whether the government ought to be mandating training, or whether women ought to be taking the initiative to seek non-profit training.
I think the issue, when you have government taking care of something such as gender-bias training, is that you're not entirely certain of the sources or the outcomes. To me, it's a very personalized issue. When it comes to women in politics, I perceive it as a very personal issue. That is why I think the idea of women working together, discussing their issues, discussing their concerns with other people who are already in politics, is really positive. I think that media training is an incredible asset, especially with how to deal with sexist remarks. I think that can be done, again, by young women getting together collaboratively outside of government with the curiosity to do it themselves.
NDP
Anne Minh-Thu Quach NDP Salaberry—Suroît, QC
I'd like to thank both of you.
Since we're on the topic of the media, I have the following questions for you.
What would you like to see from the media? How should the actions of an elected politician be covered, regardless of the level of government? What can the federal government do to encourage the media to cover the actions and speeches of women politicians in different ways? Do you think they should be covered more according to the frequency of speeches or the type of text written? What about images of women in the media compared to images of men?
What are your recommendations regarding the media?
As an Individual
When it comes to media, the most important thing is the language we're using, as leaders, to talk about women in politics. For example, during the U.S. election, which I paid attention to, Donald Trump said that Hillary Clinton did not look presidential. What does that mean, and what does it really just support this idea that women need to look a particular way to be in political office, which has many different negative connotations? I think it starts with us in terms of the ways we're talking about women in leadership positions and the way we're engaging with other women in the House. For example, not making gender-based heckles, making sure to stick to the material at hand and not making it about gender, I think is the first main point.
Then, second—
NDP
NDP
Anne Minh-Thu Quach NDP Salaberry—Suroît, QC
Oh, sorry. Do you think we should have sanctions for that kind of heckle?
As an Individual
Yes. I think we need to take preventive or disciplinary actions. I know that Samara Canada commented on different types that have been looked at. I think it could come down to training—when you're elected into political office, sitting down and having conversations about ways to respectfully engage when you disagree with your colleague. There are also opportunities for the Speaker to ask members of Parliament to remove themselves for a certain period of time. I think that, by having those types of measures in place, you are very strongly committing to ensuring that women are included in the House. There are definitely measures that need to be taken, hopefully preventive but also disciplinary, if necessary.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio
Excellent. Thank you so much.
We're now going to move over to Marc Serré for his seven minutes.
Liberal
Marc Serré Liberal Nickel Belt, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
This is great. Thank you so much to both witnesses for your presentation. Obviously, we have some different approaches, which is great. I always say in politics pick a lane, just get involved, and fight for your views. We have different paths to get to the same goal: to have a better Canada, a better society. Thank you both for your different opinions here.
Ms. Erickson, you spoke in your opening statement about nomination races and some barriers. Can you outline some of that for the committee? Also are you familiar with Bill C-76, the legislation that has just been submitted, and do you have any suggestions or comments related to that legislation?
As an Individual
I'm not familiar with Bill C-76, but I can expand on what I'm talking about in terms of nomination races. It starts with your recruitment. I know, for example, that the Liberal Party of Canada has set voluntary internal targets, but has had issues in terms of being able to fulfill them. We need to be ensuring that we have enforcement mechanisms within parties, if it's going to be voluntary, to ensure they're reaching their targets in terms of having diverse candidates.
I will give an example in terms of nomination races and what that means in terms of eventual candidates. We know that women are likely to win in very diverse communities. We know that, in the 2015 election, for example, women running for the Liberals and Conservatives won less frequently than their male colleagues. I think it matters who you're recruiting, because that then translates into potentially who can be nominated, and that has significant impacts for the types of women who are being elected into politics.
I'll give an example of a solution. Recently New Brunswick released its first proactive strategy to increase women's representation, and it actually tied per-vote subsidies to the gender of the candidates who are being nominated. Not only does this encourage parties to run women, but it provides a real financial incentive to put them in winnable ridings, where they have the opportunity to actually get elected.
Liberal
Marc Serré Liberal Nickel Belt, ON
When we talk about Daughters of the Vote, participation in a model parliament, or other initiatives, we have heard how important mentorship is.
Do you have any suggestions or recommendations to the committee on the importance of mentorship programs, or have you any suggestions for us on that front?
As an Individual
First of all, I think government has the opportunity to provide funding to these underfunded organizations that already do this really great work. For example, the Canadian Women Voters Congress unfortunately disbanded in November, so Equal Voice has committed to taking up those opportunities of having boot camp training, three days when women can come together and explore different issues and actually attempt to run their own campaign and talk about what that looks like and take on questions from the media, which is really great.
I'll use an example from Switzerland, actually. It created a women-to-women mentorship program in 1999 to reach more young women, to create networks, because we know that women, compared to men, have fewer opportunities in terms of networking with political and business communities that often financially support candidates who are running for office. In five years, that program had 250 people go through it, and the mentees said it increased their interest in politics, it brought in their network, it increased their self-confidence in public speaking, and provided better help with their career and future planning. Many will now go on to run for political office.
Liberal
Marc Serré Liberal Nickel Belt, ON
I have another question here. I'll ask both of you, and maybe you could answer first, Ms. Erickson.
Part of the documentation we have from the analysts is that we're 60th in the world for percentage of women in politics, and in the upper and lower chambers it is 27%. It's not a large number, and it hasn't really changed a lot. Some would argue that we need to shock the system and do something drastic—possibly quotas.
France has a parity law, and Mexico has used some quotas.
I just want to get thoughts from both of you on what we can do in the very short term to possibly shock the system and really get more women to become involved and be elected in the provincial and federal chambers.