Status of Women Committee on Sept. 26th, 2016

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Madam Chair, just very quickly. Ms. Todd mentioned that she has three more pages of written material. I'd like to invite her and Ms. Parsons, if they have things they couldn't get to, to submit them in writing to the committee. Is that acceptable?

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Absolutely. That would be very acceptable.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Ms. Vecchio.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

First and foremost, like everybody else here at the table, I thank you so much for being here. It is very important to hear from the two of you who have experienced first-hand the losses of your daughters. I myself, along, I know, with many other members around this table are parents, so I can only imagine the pain and suffering you went through and I'm sure it remains there today.

In the time of your experiences, and by no means do I want to seem cold and terrible on this, because I recognize that it is so deep in you, but have you found that the cyber-violence or cyber-bullying has become more prevalent in discussions? Has education become better, or do you find that you sort of come in, and people talk about it, and then it fades away within a week or two and people are back to doing the normal thing again?

[Carol Todd]

I think it depends on the province you live in. We're talking about the education aspect and how important it might be in the curriculum. I know that in British Columbia, where technology is now embedded into our curriculum, it's our responsibility to talk about digital responsibility and digital emotions and avenues like that.

Also in the four years I've been going through this journey, I never thought I'd have to be doing research in this area, but when I watch the news feeds, the topic of conversation is more worldwide in every country. I also get messages from different people across the world, so it's a huge concern, but we really need to put things in place to make it more global in terms of education and awareness.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Leah.

[Leah Parsons]

I agree. Again, it comes down to pockets. Some schools put a lot of emphasis on it. They carry it out not just on one day or one week but throughout the school year. They keep coming back to it, but it doesn't seem to be uniform.

Again, putting the emphasis on it and making it mandatory are really important, and this is an issue around the world. We get messages from around the world, and it's a concern for everybody.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Unfortunately, you have become the spokespersons for this issue. I'm sure, as you said, that many people are coming out and speaking to you.

Have you found, since your own experience, that our support services have increased and developed properly? What can we be doing better as a nation to ensure that we do have that support for our young victims and girls who have gone through what both of your daughters went through?

[Carol Todd]

We are continuing to work on support systems, but there is never enough. There comes a point when you listen to the stories of families. They now know how to report. Kids and young people are now learning how to share that information with a trusting adult in order to report, but after it gets reported, it drops off. Where did they go next? What did they do?

With victimization and trauma, if they're lucky enough to have caught the perpetrator, then the trauma continues on. Where is the counselling? Where are the resources? Where is the further help? Sometimes it's cost-prohibitive or there's a wait-list. When you're dealing with mental health, there's no time to wait, because a matter of a day, a week, or a month could mean life and death.

That's the part where I feel our system breaks down. It is the support system after the trauma. That goes with bullying, cyber-bullying, and mental health.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Absolutely. Thank you so much. I'm listening to you. This is a conversation to have over a cup of tea, because it's so intimate, so I really thank you.

They talk a lot about parents monitoring. I try to do my best by monitoring my 13-year-old's cellphone, and the phones of my 18-, 19-, 20- and 22-year-olds. I don't monitor my 22-year-old's anymore. What are some of the things that we can do proactively as parents?

A lot of these conversations do start at home. I know you have both gone through this. I'm sure you're just like the rest of us who just want the best for our children, but we don't know what's happening. What are some things that you think we can do or some tips for parents and some education or things that we need to do better? As parents we really don't know what happens when we walk out the door unless we're holding their hands for the next 24 hours each day. What are some of your recommendations?

[Leah Parsons]

I would say take it out of the bedroom. Don't let them go to bed with their devices. If you start that at a young enough age, it becomes something that they just get used to.

A lot of parents are just leaving their devices in the room. Not only is that sleep deprivation for the kid because they're addicted to these devices but it just sets up really negative patterns.

I have a 12-year old daughter. She just started junior high school, and she doesn't have a cellphone. She's the only one of her friend group that doesn't have a cellphone. She begs me every day and I'm terrified.

I know I'll eventually have to get her that cellphone, but in the meantime, I'm just not finished talking about it yet.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

And you don't have to be.

[Leah Parsons]

That's for sure.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Ms. Todd, do you have anything to add?

[Carol Todd]

I talk about this all the time. It's bringing that trust and communication into the family setting, and talking at a young age and having children talk to parents in a way that they know that their parents are not going to judge them and get angry at them. Vice versa, when parents are talking to their kids, the kids need to know that it's out of love; it's not out of wanting to creep online, and finding out everything they are doing.

There are different ways to handle it at different ages. We can't stop the proliferation of technology. It's becoming faster and quicker, and parents and adults cannot keep up with the information out there. We need to educate our parents and teachers. We need to educate the communities, law enforcement, and everybody on how to have that conversation with the kids, because parents cannot do it alone. There has to be a community global effort in order to get that information to our kids on how to behave, what to do, what not to do, what to do with your friends, and how you feel.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

That's your time.

Ms. Malcolmson, go ahead for seven minutes, please.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

I'm going to echo my colleagues' words. I'm very sorry for your loss, and I'm very grateful for your advocacy and bravery and the legacy you are working towards. Thank you.

Ms. Parsons, after the review of the handling of your daughter's case, the attorney general in Nova Scotia made two commitments: one was a pledge to work with all partners inside and outside of government, in particular police and public prosecution services; and the other was to improve provincial policies and procedures.

Can you give us a big-picture sense of whether you feel that work has been done?

[Leah Parsons]

I don't feel that work has been done yet. They may be working towards it.

I will have a meeting with justice minister Diana Whalen in a couple of weeks, so I will be getting an update on that. There's a lot to do.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

The other element I read was that the attorney general and justice minister said that “effort will require the input and co-operation of parents, schools, police, health-care providers, advocates and communities all working together...”.

Are you confident that change has been made?

[Leah Parsons]

It hasn't yet. That's why I have the appointment. I'm going to get an update. I'll know more once I meet with her.

I know that she is working on putting together the new cyber-safety act. I know that they hope to introduce a new one in 2017.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

If you do get a sense of that, I think we would probably all be glad to hear your update. We don't always have a handle at the federal level on this working together in co-operation with teachers and police. However, we can still provide leadership, and we're optimistic that a national strategy could get at bridging between the provinces.

Ms. Todd referred to British Columbia's education system improvements. I would hope that when one province or even one school board gets it right that we at the federal level can then show leadership and transmit that, so that each family and each jurisdiction has a hope of having common and equal access to justice and prevention.

We'd love your update, if you do get some news.

[Leah Parsons]

I will definitely update you.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Ms. Todd, I'm curious as to what you're hearing from families you're in touch with now.

Are they starting to see results from the cyber-violence program being brought into the B.C. education system curriculum, and do you think that a parent and a child experiencing what your daughter did would have a better chance now of getting the support they need?

[Carol Todd]

Our new curriculum just started this year. Digital responsibility has been talked about, but it's in separate zones. A school can decide to do it or not to do it. They could do it at 150%, or they could do it at 25%.

We need to get telecommunication companies, who disperse cellphones and sell them and data plans to our families, involved so that they can have the broader discussion, because we're not going to do it just at schools. I think that it is almost too late. The conversation on cyber-violence between the people I'm in contact with is happening because of Amanda's story and Rehtaeh's story, and because of so many more stories around North America. A conversation about cyber-violence, as I said, is taking place. Families are feeling more comfortable in bringing out that news article and saying, “Have you seen this?”

Real-life stories make an impact. Unfortunately, we're real-life stories. However, I'm okay with my story being shared if it's going to make a difference in a family's life.