Status of Women Committee on Oct. 24th, 2016

[Kripa Sekhar]

Yes.

[Dr. Reena Tandon]

You bring up a very important point here, which we have been talking about in terms of the continuum. The earlier team was testifying from the university perspective. I think at the school level in gender they would like to point out that we need to redefine the language of violence. What is identified as violence is very...the pervasiveness of the forms of violence need a different language, we feel, in our context.

It is hard to label it, hard to name it. The school level is where the preparation and the identification can begin, so that when students come to the university they're a little more prepared.

But definitely at the school level and the teenage level the services are lacking. Maybe the guidance counsellors need.... There are so many gaps that can be filled.

[Kripa Sekhar]

The other thing is that we have served a very large Tamil population. They have fled oppression and war. We have served the Bangladeshi community. We continue to serve those populations, as well as the Tibetan community and Arabic-speaking communities and Pakistani communities. Many of those communities have also fled oppression and come to this country with a lot of trauma; trauma as a result of the oppression they have fled, but also trauma as a result of not being able to fit in.

In fact, SAWC did a mental health study on suicide a few years ago. We looked at a particular community, the Pakistani community of young people in the age groups of around, I would say, 16 to 25. It was a very small study of 200 young people. We found that many of them were suicidal. Many of them faced some form of depression. Many of them needed mental health supports. It was all related to the fact that they had been displaced from their home country and had to come here.

Those are serious issues. We have not addressed anything in our paper, because we only had 10 minutes. If we had to tell our life story, it would take 34 years to tell it to you, but that's all we could do in such a short time, because there are so many issues embedded within.

It's surprising that so many women have said to us.... We've sent them to shelters, and they've gone back to the men. We've asked them as a follow-up what the reason is, and they have said, “He's the only security I know.” I think that's a sad story for all of us, and we need to address it very quickly, if we truly want to the address the issue of violence against women and eliminate all forms of violence against all women.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

We share your wish.

Can we talk a bit more about domestic violence shelters? Do you have enough space? Do you have enough funding? Is there sufficient housing for the women who leave violent relationships to move and have that permanency?

[Kripa Sekhar]

We are not a shelter. We are a centre, but we work closely with shelters. Quite often we are told there is no space in one shelter, so try another shelter. We go to central intake and then, of course, we get the runaround.

It's very hard sometimes to find enough space. I think shelter space has to be increased, but more important than transitional housing is some form of permanent housing for women who have gone through this kind of abuse. They need a place where they can raise their children and can live in peace. I think that's something that can be concretely done.

[Dr. Reena Tandon]

A lot of South Asian women in that age group are also family women. To substantiate what Kripa is saying, they're not single women. Quite often they have married at an early age and have the responsibility of children, which makes it harder to leave but also harder to stay away from violent situations or a relapse into the situation.

Marmitha, do you have anything to say?

[Marmitha Yogarajah]

No, it's okay.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

We can get into that intergenerational impact. If these young girls are exposed to the domestic violence that their mothers are receiving, then that can scar and traumatize them, as well.

[Kripa Sekhar]

It's a cycle.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

We've heard from other witnesses about their wish that the education system was more informed about trauma and more able to support both young boys and young women around appropriate behaviour, especially when the family unit is not intact. Can you talk more about your hopes for that?

[Kripa Sekhar]

I think the education system is a critical factor, and it's a critical piece of this whole issue. The issue is getting people into that educational system, growing them through that educational system, and understanding the complexities that occur as a result of young South Asian women and young South Asian boys who go through the system, who meet with their peers, and who have a different conversation than what they have at home.

You know, there are mixed conversations that go on, and that can lead to conflict and trauma. Very often, the Children's Aid Society is brought in because children are told that if your parent gives you a slap, you can report it. We have seen these sorts of cases. SAWC has worked with the Children's Aid Society to try to reunite families, because both the children and the parents have been so completely isolated in these situations. We have to look at that. That's why I say these are not exclusionary processes. There has to be a way to reach all of the factors and all of the players; otherwise, you're going to only maybe catch on one issue and still not fix the other.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Thank you, that's great. That's your time.

We're going now to our final questions.

There are seven minutes for Mr. Serré.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Witnesses, thank you so much for your testimony, for answering the questions, for your work.

My question is more related to the research and the data. We've heard from many witnesses at the committee that there is a lack of research and a lack of data, and I would assume that there is even more of a lack of data when we look at Asian immigration in Canada.

You indicated earlier that you had 900 cases. Do you have data on that with age groups? Do you also share some of that data with other Asian groups, maybe in Toronto, or in other centres across Canada? What role can the federal government play to facilitate that gathering and sharing of data nationally?

[Kripa Sekhar]

Here's the thing that we do, and we do it best. When a woman walks in through the door, first of all, we have to make sure she's comfortable to disclose her issue. Then we do what is known as an intake and an assessment. Based on the assessment, we look at the number of units of service she needs. Does she need legal support? Does she need help, whether it's to do with her immigration status, or whether it's to do with her family or family law? Does she need support with shelter? Does she need financial support?

We look at all those issues, and then staff members start doing the referrals. These women are then referred out. Their case file remains with us, because women follow up, but we make sure that they are provided appropriate services through the appropriate agencies. Many of them come back to us and say, “I'm not happy at this shelter,” or “I am not happy with this lawyer.” Then our place is to try to find them someone who they can work with.

Some cases have been resolved. Some cases are not yet resolved. Some cases are just...I don't know what's going to happen to them. Those 900 cases that I talked about over the last two years vary. Some women come in and say, “This is what my husband is doing to me. What should I do?” From planning an exit strategy with them, if they want to leave, to dealing with assisting them through that process, that is how we work. Our counsellors have all the casework in place. We have not yet documented each and every case, because it is very hard to do, but we have a number of stories that we are prepared to share with you.

[Dr. Reena Tandon]

I would like to add that we really are encouraged by the suggestions that have been asked of us for the changes the federal government can make. This is very encouraging. As I said earlier, we have a lot of anecdotal evidence, but...some resources and maybe a working group, where someone like Kripa can be at the table for a sustained period of time to look at the indicators of violence coming out of these cases, at what the forms of violence are, how we can analyze the policy. Unlike the earlier group from the universities, who are more organized and more textual or academic in their approach, community organizations are the holders of this knowledge and wisdom, but I think we need to bring them to a table where these cases can be analyzed vis-à-vis the federal policy and the gaps. I think this is what they're identifying here is the next working group. We can do our best to give examples one after the other, but if we are really serious about this, because there is so much information available from the grassroots, we can really go to the next step.

[Kripa Sekhar]

Okay. I'm also going to very quickly touch on the work we did with St. Michael's Hospital. We were called in to work with St. Michael's Hospital. They got a grant to work on looking at the issue around the girl child, the girl baby, the sex selection abortion. We worked on that issue and the results were startling. I have been interviewed by media. There is data collected on that. We talked about the fact that in many of these instances, women did not have a choice, and when they conceived their second or third child and it was known to be a girl, they were probably coerced into having an abortion. So the issue of choice stops there.

We work in collaboration with a number of partners who also hold part of this research.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you.

We've heard from many witnesses about educating men. Do you have a program to look at educating Asian men? You might not be able to share it all today, but if there's something you could share with the committee at a later point, it would be beneficial.

[Kripa Sekhar]

Some of the things we did when we were doing this project and a previous project were to bring young men and fathers into the room. We had separate sessions with them to talk about how they would support their daughters or their spouses. Some of the results were startling. Some of the young men said, “Well, we have to be the protectors of our sisters.” We wanted to have that conversation. It was important to have that conversation. The fathers also talked about the fact that they needed to be.... So we have tried. We are trying to create a men's group. The issue again is the time of work. We support men through other ways, one-on-one counselling. But it is about their work. Many of them are in shift work. Can they come for a group? Are they able to meet? Punjabi Community Health Services, I believe, has a support group for Punjabi men. We would like to have one for a wider group of men. That is one of our goals.

[Dr. Reena Tandon]

I think there is a lot of collaboration possibly with the White Ribbon campaign, organizations such as that with community leaders, young professionals, and talking about it at the level of gender equality. SAWC has its own reference of the ways in which they want to work [Inaudible—Editor].

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

You said you had a lot of other recommendations. Please share them with the clerk. Thank you.

[Dr. Reena Tandon]

And thank you so much for being patient.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Ladies, we thank you for your testimony. It was excellent and I definitely want to hear more from you. Thank you for joining us today.

We have a bit of committee business that we're going to go to, so we'll turn the cameras off and we'll see you again sometime. Thank you.

Committee members, I just want to let you know that we did get some late cancellations for Wednesday. You saw that there's some committee business.

Ms. Malcolmson has brought two notices of motion which normally require 48 hours, but we really don't have 48 hours before the Wednesday meeting. She'd like to do an oral presentation which means she can read the motions but we won't debate them today. We would then be talking about them and voting on them on Wednesday.

Ms. Malcolmson, perhaps you'd like to go ahead.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

I have copies that could be passed out, and yes, absolutely, the intention is to read this out loud today and then have the discussion and the vote in accordance with appropriate notice.

The short one I'll say first. This is following up on our gender-based analysis recommendations:

That the Committee invite the Minister of Status of Women, the Honourable Patty Hajdu, as soon as possible so that she can present and explain the government's official response to the Committee's report entitled, Implementing Gender-based Analysis Plus in the Government of Canada, and that this meeting be televised.

The second motion is one that I understand is consistent with a motion that has been passed by PROC and is starting to make its way through the other committees, to make sure that there's a common understanding for the rationale for going in camera, which we discussed informally as a committee, but it seems that it might be a good practice to consider formalizing it. The motion is:

That the Committee may only meet in camera for the following purposes:

(a) to consider wages, salaries and other employee benefits;

(b) to consider contracts and contract negotiations;

(c) to consider labour relations and personnel matters;

(d) to consider a draft report or agenda;

(e) for briefings concerning national or parliamentary security;

(f) to consider matters where privacy or the protection of personal information is required;

(g) to receive legal, administrative or procedural advice from the House of Commons Administration;

(h) for any other reason, with the unanimous consent of the committee; and

That the Chair may schedule all or portions of a meeting to be in camera for the reasons listed above; [and]

That any motion to sit in camera shall be subject to a debate where the mover, and one member from each of the other recognized parties, be given up to three minutes each to speak to the motion; and that the mover shall then be given up to one minute to respond.

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

All right.

For Wednesday's meeting the committee business will be to debate these motions, to review the draft letters for lighting the Peace Tower, and to have a discussion about what we are going to study after we finish this current study on violence against women. So think about that.

Mr. Fraser.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

On that note, concerning what we may study next, I prepared a motion that I haven't circulated to the group yet because I want to tinker with it a little. The general theme behind it was really pulled from what I saw as the most common theme that we raised at the outset, which we haven't yet studied, which is really matters of promoting women in the Canadian economy. I've broken it down into a handful of sub-groups, such as corporate boards, leadership in government.... I forget all the sub-categories off the top of my head, but I plan to circulate the motion.

Perhaps as a courtesy to the committee we won't have to vote on it on Wednesday, but I'll circulate it ahead of time in case we have time for that discussion.