Status of Women Committee on June 13th, 2017

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you.

In the document you also gave indications about caregivers. We've heard in the past from witnesses about how many hours seniors are getting in caregiving and home care, and seniors want to remain in their homes.

You praised our government for the tax credit, but you wanted us to go a step further. Can you explain a bit about the caregiver's rebate that you are proposing?

[Wanda Morris]

Absolutely. There are two things we would like, and while we commend you for the work done to support middle-class caregivers, it's really a large opportunity left unmet to look after our poorest caregivers.

By creating and extending a tax credit that is refundable, that only is accessed if you have taxable income, we really leave without support those low-income tax earners whose income is not sufficient, or who have had to leave their employment to do full-time care, or who are out of the workforce because they're frail and elderly. We have thus advocated for a non-refundable tax credit.

Secondly, we look to the jurisdictions of the U.K., Australia, and Nova Scotia, which has dipped a toe into this, in providing a means-tested caregiver allowance. I think that would go a great way to help caregivers.

Let me also add a third piece. We know there's a provision in CPP for people to have coverage when they opt out of the workforce to raise children. Why not having something similar for people who are primary full-time caregivers?

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you.

I'll switch over to Mr. Vansickle.

Thank you so much for the advocacy you do on the disability front. I have about a minute left, and so I want to ask you for two specific measures you would recommend the federal government undertake as two main priorities to help individuals with disabilities—you mentioned severe disabilities, but also general disabilities—to reintegrate into the workforce.

[Bob Vansickle]

I talked about moving away from wage or training subsidies and moving to accommodation supports. I think that definitely would be one.

I also think that to address another barrier in particular for women who have a disability, we should look at more support for child care needs as well as transportation.

The fact is that we have women who are working at entry-level jobs, and those entry-level jobs often are not Monday to Friday, 9 to 5. They could be working overnight, evenings, weekends, and sometimes transportation as well as child care can be very difficult to access.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Now we'll go to Ms. Kusie for seven minutes.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you very much to all of our witnesses here today.

I'll start with Ms. Morris, please.

You talked a lot about the absence of funds as being a challenge for many reasons for senior women. I wonder whether you have noticed a trend or whether there are any studies related to trends that would indicate a generational change?

Certainly, I see with my more senior constituents the problems you are referring to, but I feel very fortunate to have grown up in an era in which we've seen a real emphasis on financial education for women. I've had an investment adviser since I was right out of college, and I'm very grateful for that.

As well, we've seen a significant redefinition of the family. My mother grew up in a time when you relied on one individual as the sole breadwinner for the family. I'm not young here, but in my mid-forties, and certainly grew up with the idea that I had the option of having my own career and had the opportunity as a result to make my own choices regarding investments and saving for my future, options that simply weren't as prevalent in a previous time.

With the breakdown of the traditional family, are there any positive results in terms of trends that we're seeing, and perhaps hope for future generations of women?

Thank you.

[Wanda Morris]

Thank you.

What you're pointing to is in fact documented. We are seeing a decrease in poverty among women as more and more women are working outside the home. Our senior seniors would typically not have worked outside the home. I think that situation has really reversed, such that it's now atypical to only work in the home. When we are looking at ways to support women, it's particularly our older cohort of women who are most vulnerable and most at risk.

I would say, however, that there are new challenges facing our younger women. Kudos to you for having an investment adviser and saving for retirement. That's wonderful, but what we are seeing is issues around investor protection that women seem to be particularly vulnerable to, and CARP would love to see those raised, so that when people are taking steps to look after themselves, lax investor protection isn't then robbing them of their financial sustainability in retirement.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you. Certainly I am privileged to have had those opportunities to receive education, have a career, have funds to invest, so thank you very much, Ms. Morris.

I will now turn to Ms. Hayes and Ms. Bosman.

Thank you so much. You mentioned that in the critical time when there was no government funding available you were able to survive on the will of other people and organizations with their generosity and fundraising.

Can you talk a little bit about that, please—the people, the organizations outside of government—who felt so compelled about your organization that they were moved to give? What types of groups are we looking at here?

[Violet Hayes]

Parksville is a very small community, so there is a great collaboration piece there that we actually don't see as much in Nanaimo, because it's a bigger centre. Many organizations stepped up. We did a big fundraiser, with people walking on the coldest night of the year in a cross-country event. The SOS is another organization in town. So many helped and pitched in, and we paid for what we could to ensure that these clients.... Island Health actually was able to provide some of the funding.

We really just work together, because as you can imagine, to have had to evict the five people whom we had just housed would have been just terrible. We were fortunate, and those subsidies are still going, but it's very piecemeal, and that's not a good way to live.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you very much to both of you.

Madam Chair, I think the will of humanity is so incredible when left on its own.

Finally, Mr. Vansickle, can you educate me, please? Are there any provincial or federal corporate incentives in Canada for corporations to hire those with disabilities? Does anything like this exist—perhaps committee members who have been here longer might also have more information—in respect to the types of incentives that would exist in a corporate setting to hire persons with disabilities presently here in Canada?

[Bob Vansickle]

Thank you for the question.

In fact, incentives have been around forever. I've been in the field almost 25 years, and wage subsidies and training incentives, whatever you want to call them, have been around as long as I've been around and much longer. When we're looking at incentivizing businesses to hire people with a disability, one of the things that we've learned in Ontario.... I think in Ontario we've become world leaders. When I was fortunate enough to attend a Zero Project Conference back in February in Austria, I had an opportunity to really glean what was going on in other countries in the world. Ontario is definitely a leader. One of the reasons, I think, is because we've moved away from trying to pay employers and incentivize them through wage subsidies and training subsidizes to hire people who have a disability. First of all, I think trying to pay someone to hire a person sends a terrible message about the value of people.

For a long time we've been hearing about corporate social responsibility. What's happening in other parts of the world, and really started in the United States with Randy Lewis and Walgreens—

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Yes, please expand on that. I'm very interested to hear about that, pardon me.

[Bob Vansickle]

Randy Lewis, who was the senior vice-president of Walgreens until a couple of years ago, has a son who is on the ASD spectrum and has autism. In this role within the corporation, Lewis tried to look for way to see how they could include people with disabilities. As the senior vice-president of logistics, he started with one distribution centre. As a result of including over 40% of people who had a disability, that distribution centre ended up being the most productive. It had 87% lower costs than any other distribution centre throughout the corporation. At that point, the CEO, the shareholders, and the board were on board. They then moved to a target of 10% of people with disabilities throughout the corporation. From that, they then moved to a target of 20%. Now Walgreens is the largest drug supplier in the world.

Now what's happening is that corporations from around the world—not just Canada, Japan, and Europe—are all going to Walgreens, which is very willing to share the model. They're now looking at including people with a disability as a return on investment.

I think what we need to do in our field, and I think in the federal government and provincial governments in Canada, is get that message out. Hiring people with a disability is about return on investment. There are so many stats and studies and information out there that prove that when you hire people with a disability, they take less sick time, the WSIB costs are lower, they stay in the job longer, and they are just better all-round employees. It's about moving away from that idea of charity and having to pay someone to on-board people with a disability. The fact is that you are going to see huge benefits from on-boarding people with a disability. We're already seeing this in Canada.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Very good. I'm sorry, but that's the end of that question time.

We have to go to Ms. Malcolmson now for seven minutes.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Vansickle. Business is stepping up again.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses.

I'm going to start with the Island Crisis Care Society from Nanaimo. I'm going to try to fit four questions into seven minutes. We'll see how we do here.

We've heard a lot of statistics about the situation of women in Canada, elderly women in particular, who've been prevented from saving during their working life and then fall into poverty as they age. The stories that you're telling about the age of women who are seeking shelter at your facilities is disheartening. It's an embarrassment to the country that women, anybody who's worked their whole lives in our country, then at the age of 76 or 82 faces homelessness. So, I thank you for the work you're doing.

Can you describe a little bit more your observation or what you've heard about what has happened to these women in their lives that got them to that place? Did they have difficulty finding work? What impact did divorce have on them? What's the cumulated experience that puts them into that position of vulnerability just at the time of their life when they should be the most secure?

[Ronell Bosman, Programme Director, Samaritan House, Island Crisis Care Society]

I'll answer that question. Thank you for this opportunity.

Yes, we do see a lot of seniors. I've been six years at the organization and it's just terrible to see people coming in. We have bunk beds. It's really difficult for women with mobility issues to get into a bunk bed and be in a room where there are eight people. It's a low-barrier shelter, so it is really tough for senior women or people who have never been in that position and are not streetwise. They haven't known that type of life, to be in such circumstances.

As to what we've seen with seniors, over the last two or three years I have observed that there are people from their sixties up to their eighties, women from all walks of life, some very highly educated people. We had a psychiatric nurse. We had a teacher. We had a social worker. We had an RCMP officer there. It is usually due to trauma and violence, domestic violence, but lately it's financial difficulty. In our low-barrier shelter, it used to be drug abuse and high mental health challenges that were among the reasons people were accessing the shelter. They really couldn't function and have a stable life in their communities. However, financial distress and financial difficulty are now bringing people to our doors.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Is that a change in the type of female clients you're seeing access your shelters?

[Ronell Bosman]

Yes, definitely. A lot of people who enter tell us it's the first time they've been in a shelter, mostly elderly women, people with education. It's not just people who are addicted to some type of substance. It's not just people with mental health issues.

Mental health is another challenge that we have. For people with mental health challenges, there's nowhere to go. They don't always function well in a community, in market housing. They do get evicted and they end up with us as the last resort, the last place to come.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you so very much, to your whole team, for your work.

I want to ask a question of the Canadian Association of Retired Persons. I'm grateful for your big impact advocacy. You've really changed a lot of policies in the country by virtue of your focus on policy change.

On your website, you note that almost a million people in Ontario alone rely on defined benefit pension plans for retirement income. We're concerned that the government's Bill C-27 is trying to replace defined benefits with the less-secure target benefits plan. A witness from the United Steelworkers at an earlier meeting for this study told the committee that the elimination of defined benefits could put senior women in danger of living in poverty.

Can you describe why it's important for senior women to have access to secure pension plans?

[Wanda Morris]

Absolutely. What we hear from so many people is that they wish they had saved more back when they were working, that if they had known then what they know now, they would have saved more. There's a lot of research on the benefits of nudging people to do certain things, but a defined benefit pension plan goes beyond that to really mandate a secure retirement future for individuals. It's one of the reasons CARP was so pleased with the My65+ plan that came out from OPSEU in Ontario, where the really low-income workers, personal support workers, would have some retirement security.

Defined pension plans are the gold standard, and CARP is a huge supporter of those. We are also aware of the economic realities and the bleeding that is happening from defined pension plans. We want to be realistic about supporting alternatives that will increase the coverage for individuals. Ultimately, for private corporations, it's the businesses that are footing the bill, so we need to find a program that works for businesses and still provides benefits for individuals.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

You have a campaign through CARP to support the eight million Canadians who provide unpaid care to aging parents. We've heard a lot of testimony at this committee about women who are in the sandwich generation of simultaneously looking after their children and their senior parents, which pushes them into precarious work. Then they lack access to unemployment insurance and a pension. It's quite a calamitous series of policies that collide.

Can you tell us what the government could do to better support those people who are providing unpaid care for family members?

[Wanda Morris]

Sure. There are three things. One is to change the caregiver tax credits to make them refundable so an individual doesn't have to be earning an income to be able to access them.

Second would be a means-tested caregiver allowance at a minimum of $100 a week, which is the Nova Scotia rate. That is an allowance. We've seen similar programs in the U.K. and Australia.

Third would be some provision in the CPP similar to, or perhaps even better than, the provisions for individuals who take time out of their working lives to provide child care. If somebody is a primary caregiver with a very onerous burden of caregiving, that shouldn't hit that person's CPP earnings in retirement.

Finally, the concept of a universal basic income would be another way to ensure that everybody in Canada has the ability to live with dignity and peace of mind.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Very good.

Now we'll go to my colleague, Ms. Damoff, for seven minutes.