Status of Women Committee on Feb. 1st, 2018

[Savannah Gentile]

There are a number of ways. I think the importance here is to start engaging and asking those questions and finding answers. We don't have all of the solutions worked out. What we know is what's not working. Absolutely, we're trying to work with systems that aren't working.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I was going to say, still on the issue of classification, that you mentioned this ridiculously outdated tool that was designed 25 years ago for white guys. Obviously a new tool with a gender-based analysis plus should be established. Who is in the best position to do that? How can we go about creating a culturally sensitive and appropriate classification tool?

[Savannah Gentile]

I'm not sure, actually, that I'm comfortable speaking on a classification tool because that operates under the presumption that—

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

That the classification is fair....

[Savannah Gentile]

—people will be in prisons, and we are, as you know, prison abolitionists.

As I said, Moira Law wrote a great report. The CSC didn't publish it. I do have a copy of that report. If anyone is interested, I'd be happy to send it out. As I suggested, she recommends that all women start at minimum security. That was her conclusion, based on a lengthy research project.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

If there are answers that you would have liked to get on the record today, or things we should read, I would ask you to please send them through the clerk to get them on the record, and we can consider them that way.

[Savannah Gentile]

Okay.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Ms. Lomax, you mentioned—and I think the witnesses from Elizabeth Fry piggybacked on this as well—the CSC guidelines dealing with the exclusion of serious mental illness and the problematic definition that essentially allows them to put a person in administrative segregation by another name. What is the problem with the definition? More importantly, how do we fix it so that we're not dealing with this problem that just seems to perpetuate segregation?

[Virginia Lomax]

My point is that we need to end segregation. If you want a concise answer, it's that we have to end this process. No matter what you call the process of isolating a person and letting them sit there with no contact with the outside world, and with all of these things that the UN itself has defined as torture, we need end this practice.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

On that issue, I believe—and I could be mistaken—that you explained that this was really an administrative decision that's being made at the institutional level.

[Virginia Lomax]

Yes.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

As a federal government, is this a legislative fix? To put the same question to you in a different context, how do we go about ending it? Do we forever ban it with a piece of legislation that says it can't happen anymore?

[Virginia Lomax]

Yes, it could certainly be a legislative fix.

[Savannah Gentile]

International tools are there, actually—

[Virginia Lomax]

Yes.

[Savannah Gentile]

—to assist in that as well.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

That's fabulous.

Moving to you, Denise Peterson, you mentioned some of the great features of the community courts. Congratulations on the work you've done on this issue. It's very intriguing to me. We've seen different kinds of specialty courts pop up in different provinces. In my home province of Nova Scotia, we have a fairly new mental health court that's shown some real promise.

I would suggest that adopting a similar approach with community courts for this kind of scenario would be similarly promising. There is one obstacle that's staring me in the face, the fact that the administration of justice typically falls within the purview of provincial governments. Obviously, when we're dealing with indigenous persons, the federal government has a bit of a role to play. How can we get this done? What's the fix for the problem? Is it partnering with provinces, or funding agreements...? How do we achieve this?

[Denise Peterson]

I think you have already stated the answer. The existing templates that I've seen recently in Manitoba around education have been incredibly successful. Working through it with indigenous voices in the forefront, working toward creating memorandums of understanding would work. It could be legislated.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Finally, in the last 40 seconds, Ms. Churcher, could I have your answer to the healing lodge question?

[Kassandra Churcher]

I'll take my five seconds to focus on “decarceration”. If it becomes an issue of money and economics, don't put the money into the prisons; put the money into the communities and get them out. The issue is overrepresentation of indigenous women. You've heard about it, so get them out. Moreover, don't recreate indigenous healing lodges; let the indigenous communities heal them.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

In my last 12 seconds, I will say thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you so much for all of your testimony: the Native Women's Association of Canada, the Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies, as well as Denise Peterson for coming as an individual.

I'm sorry to have cut you off, Ms. Lomax, but there was a request to take your opening remarks to translation so they could be circulated. As well, the submission of yours that we received is also being translated now. Thank you very much.

Ms. Damoff.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

I wonder if Elizabeth Fry could make their report available to the committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Kassandra and Savannah, if you could deliver that to the clerk, that would be fantastic.

Thank you very much.

We're going to adjourn this part of the meeting and move into subcommittee.