Evidence of meeting #25 for Status of Women in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was caf.
A video is available from Parliament.
11:40 a.m.
BGen Simon Trudeau
It's difficult for me because every case is different and there would have to be an investigative assessment and discussion within the investigative team as jurisdiction is assessed.
11:40 a.m.
NDP
Lindsay Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON
Just to follow up on what my colleague was trying to get to in terms of...and then we come back to my questioning on the fact that ultimately you report to the vice-chief of the defence staff and the chief of the defence staff. If there's a complaint against them and you find something inappropriate, where do you go with that?
Obviously you report to them, so where do you go with that after that, if you are truly independent?
11:40 a.m.
BGen Simon Trudeau
As investigations are ongoing, I would refrain from commenting on that matter.
11:40 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Marilyn Gladu
Now we go to Ms. Alleslev.
We will give two and a half minutes each to Ms. Alleslev and then Ms. Zahid.
11:40 a.m.
Conservative
Leona Alleslev Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Thank you very much.
I would like to get an answer. We're not looking for information on the ongoing investigation. If it were found through your investigation that charges needed to be laid regarding a CDS, how would that happen?
11:45 a.m.
BGen Simon Trudeau
That determination would be made at the end of the investigation.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Leona Alleslev Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Yes, so, by whom and how would they be laid?
11:45 a.m.
BGen Simon Trudeau
The decision to lay charges is made by the CFNIS.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Leona Alleslev Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
They wouldn't need to inform anybody. They would lay charges against the CDS on your authority?
11:45 a.m.
BGen Simon Trudeau
The CFNIS is a charge-laying authority.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Leona Alleslev Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Okay, so they wouldn't have to inform anybody. They could just go ahead and do it.
11:45 a.m.
BGen Simon Trudeau
Generally, depending on the outcome of the investigations, some aspects of an investigation will become public. For example, when charges are laid after an investigation, some details become public.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Leona Alleslev Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Yes, but the charges would be laid by your organization, and because you're independent you wouldn't need to inform anybody. You could just lay charges on the CDS if your investigation justified that to occur.
11:45 a.m.
BGen Simon Trudeau
CFNIS is an independent charging authority. They do not need to ask permission to do so.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Leona Alleslev Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Who audits the CFNIS to make sure that the investigation was conducted, that appropriate actions were taken and that the allegations were reviewed appropriately?
Who audits that to make sure that they were independent and that it was fully investigated?
11:45 a.m.
BGen Simon Trudeau
As I explained before, regardless of rank or status, it's the same process. We will ensure that there's a full—
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Leona Alleslev Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
That's not what I asked. You need to check. Who double-checks to make sure, regardless of rank or process, that it was conducted appropriately? Who audits it?
11:45 a.m.
BGen Simon Trudeau
As I stated before, investigations go through a rigorous vetting process through the supervisory chain. The same process applies to everyone, regardless of rank or status.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Leona Alleslev Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
But sometimes mistakes are made. I want to know who audits.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Marilyn Gladu
I'm sorry. That's the end of your time.
We're going to Ms. Zahid, for three minutes.
April 13th, 2021 / 11:45 a.m.
Liberal
Salma Zahid Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thanks, Brigadier-General Trudeau for appearing before this committee and providing your input as we continue this study.
In 2018 you launched the sexual assault review program, which serves as an open and transparent case review mechanism of the unfounded sexual assault files investigated by the Canadian Forces military police. The sexual assault review program uses an external review team to review its cases. Why do you think it is important to have an external review team to do the sexual assault investigations?
11:45 a.m.
BGen Simon Trudeau
Thank you for the question.
It felt important to have an open and transparent process to come and help us review this. Certainly, they are experts in the field of sexual assault. We wanted to learn where we could improve and get advice from external bodies on how we can better serve the community and certainly better support the victims over time.
11:45 a.m.
Liberal
Salma Zahid Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON
Can you provide some details on these individuals, who they are, those who do the reviews? Are they members of the Canadian Armed Forces?
11:45 a.m.
BGen Simon Trudeau
Among those individuals, we had a member of the SMRC, a trauma care nurse from National Defence, a member of the RCMP and a victim services advocate from Ottawa, I believe. There was also a Crown prosecutor with experience in sexual assault. We had a phase of the review where we had a case involving children. In that case, we had a child services expert to help us in the review of the case.
The external review team model is made so that, depending on the cases we want to review, we can customize the expertise that we need to help us review the case.