Status of Women Committee on Sept. 18th, 2024

[Julie Rioux]

It's a trump card. If you go into court and you start talking about domestic violence and the danger the children are in, they say, “Oh, she's alienating”, so it's also that you're under a microscope, a magnifying glass, as a mom. If I do A, it's good for my child; if I do B, they're going to say I'm alienating.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

For example, if there was a father who wasn't well, you might say, “You know what? He's not well. We want him to have a relationship and to make sure it's safe, but I don't think he should have full access, for good reason.”

Is that an argument often used in those cases?

[Julie Rioux]

It's often used in a—

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

If you could comment....

I'm sorry.

[Julie Rioux]

It's all right.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

Thank you.

I'm going to allow a few seconds to wrap up that question, and then we'll move on to the next.

[Julie Rioux]

As soon as it's used, the conversation about the risk posed by the other parent ends.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

Thank you.

Okay, Anna, you have five minutes.

We're beginning our second round.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses.

I'm not going to sit here and say that I'm not disappointed. I'm actually very disgusted.

I'm going to bring up two situations. In 1997, there was a killing of four children and their mother. The father shot them all, then shot himself. Before he did that, he set the house on fire.

In 2020, Kari's law was killed.

The reason I'm bringing both cases up is that they're so far apart. It doesn't seem like anything has changed in this country. Children are not being listened to. I'm very disgusted by this fact.

I think that, one, the judges are not listening to the children and, two, we are failing the system, as women, by not listening to them. More importantly, how many of these criminals—I call them criminals because they're abusing our children and women—are out on bail right now while women are running scared?

Anyone can answer that question.

Does anyone have the answer?

Go ahead, Julie.

[Julie Rioux]

I don't know how many, but most are.... I don't know of a victim when they weren't out on bail.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Therefore—

Go ahead.

[Julie Rioux]

When they call the police, it's “You were probably making it up” if there's a restraining order. “Oh, they just want to see their children. That's why they came to your house.” Those are the ones we hear about.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

How do we, in God's name, protect our children when these guys are out roaming the streets? We know they're going to do it again, and we're just allowing it. We need to be able to change the law—if anyone has anything to add to it—because I don't feel we're doing them any justice right now.

[Julie Rioux]

In my opinion, we're approaching this the wrong way.

Yes, they have rights. Yes, they're innocent until proven guilty. However, the victims have rights. Where's the risk management? Where is the permanent supervision order? As soon as there's an allegation, we always have supervision until it gets cleared up. None of that exists. It's very rare to get a supervised access order.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

One of the things I hear over and over again from police officers is that they feel their hands are tied. They go to the home and arrest the gentleman—Why did I call him a gentleman? He's a criminal.

They put him behind bars. He's out on bail, goes off again and is put back in jail. There is a situation.... I don't have the numbers and don't know if anyone here does. Some of these perpetrators are embedded. There's no way they will change.

Do you agree with that?

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

Mrs. Roberts, that is your time, but I want to acknowledge that Ms. Neto has her hand up, if you'd like to acknowledge her.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't see that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

No, that's okay. It's just for your awareness.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

I'm sorry. Okay.

Oh, there are two of them.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

You can choose. I'm just bringing it to your awareness.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Yes, all right. I'll have....

Is it Carla?

[Carla Neto]

Yes.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

I'm sorry. Can I call you Carla?

[Carla Neto]

Yes, you can. Thank you very much

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Would you like to answer that?