Evidence of meeting #120 for Status of Women in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was control.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Emmanuella Lambropoulos Liberal Saint-Laurent, QC
—both parents, generally, but not if there's abuse.
Executive Director, Women's Habitat of Etobicoke
There needs to be a distinction between a dysfunctional relationship that ends in divorce with parents bickering and an abusive relationship. What we're talking about here is an abusive relationship, a relationship in which there is clear violence, such as physical violence, but also one in which there is coercive control. We need to look at it from that lens.
They are using parental alienation to dismiss the claims of abuse. That's what they're using. I think that we need to be clear. We need to have this conversation within the context of broader dynamics. We need to look at patriarchy. We need to look at misogyny. We need to look at violence against women generally.
I will stop now and ask Wanda to continue because I know time is limited.
Conservative
Clinical Director, Little Warriors
Sure.
As someone who works with a trained psychologist and as a clinical social worker myself, I don't believe that it's social workers who are using the term “coercive control”; perhaps it's caseworkers within CFS.
I can't speak specifically for Quebec, but in other provinces, at Little Warriors we are seeing this coming from lawyers in domestic violence situations.
I would agree with Ms. Neto that further conversation is needed, with a clear capturing of the terms.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Shelby Kramp-Neuman
Thank you very much.
Andréanne, you have two and a half minutes.
Bloc
Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I don't know if I'll have another turn, but I'm going to address you, Ms. Rioux. I've been questioning one witness per round of questioning, and you're next.
Since we're talking about the situation in Quebec, I'd like to point out that, in addition to the people who support the criminalization of coercive control, beyond the political examples I gave earlier, there are also community groups. Just last week, I met with a group of community organizations. In Quebec, they are mainly funded by the Quebec health and social services system to help victims.
We really need to see violence against women as an issue requiring a continuum of services. So, recognizing coercive control as a crime is important, so that women can say to themselves that there's a chance that what they've been subjected to will be recognized, right up to the point of accompaniment, to help them heal. We also need financial resources to help them. So it's important to invest in our health care system so that we can help organizations in the field to support victims.
Can you talk about the importance of ensuring this continuum of services and making these investments in our health care system, beyond the legal system?
Coalition of Families Victims of Post-Separation Abuse
First of all, the MH2 Alliance in Quebec does incredible work. What you're mentioning is vitally important, especially when it comes to mental health services. Children are permanently scarred by the trauma they've experienced, and so are mothers. We experience active trauma every time we're forced to have contact with our abuser in order to co-parent.
Bloc
Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC
It is therefore crucial to continue making investments in the health care system to help organizations support victims. There's a direct link between the assistance given to organizations and the number of people they can support in the field, so we have to give them the means to do their job.
Bloc
Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC
I'll end quickly by talking about another group, since I have about 10 seconds left. I mentioned community politicians, but I'd also like to talk to you about the Juripop group, which accompanies victims and is also calling for the recognition of coercive control.
How important is such a request in helping victims?
Coalition of Families Victims of Post-Separation Abuse
Yes, it's extremely important—
Coalition of Families Victims of Post-Separation Abuse
It's extremely important. In fact, we're in contact with this group. I think there should be Juripops across the country.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Shelby Kramp-Neuman
Excellent. Thank you.
Leah, you have two and a half minutes.
NDP
Leah Gazan NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Thank you so much, Chair.
I'm really interested in this reunification therapy, because, for example, in the riding I represent—certainly a part of the riding that will be added after the next election—we have the highest number of kids in child welfare and many families requiring reunification therapy for various reasons, such as the impacts of colonization on families.
I'm interested in hearing another perspective on that, so I wanted to ask you, Madam Polzin-Holman, for your perspective on reunification therapy. My concern is that sometimes there are lots of grey areas. It's kind of like parental alienation and questions about issues around that. Could you expand on that? What are your thoughts?
Clinical Director, Little Warriors
On reunification therapy, from my perspective and in my own training, if you have a therapist or a clinician who's working with a child and a family and is trauma-informed and is using best practices, what is being described is not a best practice. What is needed is for professionals to be properly trained with trauma-informed approaches that are also culturally informed and for independent therapy to be offered to the child in conjunction with perhaps both parents having their own therapy.
When those things are put forward, a more robust picture can be formed as a result of different perspectives, versus reunification therapy being cited as the most important go-forward plan.
NDP
Leah Gazan NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Thank you so much.
I asked that because, for example, for kids in the child welfare system, we call that a pipeline to murdered and missing indigenous women and girls. What they found is it's actually often more traumatic for kids to be taken away from their families than to be reunited with their families. It has a detrimental impact on the parent, and also a detrimental impact on the child.
Conservative
Conservative
Anna Roberts Conservative King—Vaughan, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I'm going to direct my questions to Ms. Polzin-Holman. I hope I pronounced that properly. Excuse me if I didn't.
You stated earlier that 29% reoffend after they are released, and you mentioned that 90% of offenders are known to children. One in four girls and one in six boys are exposed to sexual assault before the age of 18.
I need to ask you this question because I'm really concerned about this. Sexual assaults are up 75% and sexual violations against children are up 119% since Trudeau took power, and yesterday Toronto police arrested a man while he was already out on bail after allegedly sexually assaulting three women at a York University campus.
Can you please help me understand? When these individuals are being let out to continually abuse women, how do we change that so that we can protect the women and the children?
Clinical Director, Little Warriors
Unfortunately, this pertains not only to women but also children. I don't think a day goes by in Sherwood Park and the Edmonton area without a posting displayed by the police or the RCMP that a dangerous criminal of concern has been released. We've had numerous situations in which they have reoffended within weeks or even days. It is quite predictable, unfortunately, and the supports to ensure that vulnerable people are safe are not in place.
Conservative
Anna Roberts Conservative King—Vaughan, ON
I am going to bring up something, and I hope my colleague won't be upset with me. She shared a story with me during her tour in Newfoundland about the man who ended up killing his wife and children and who went back to the mosque and basically said to other women—his words—“This is what happens when you don't listen to us.”
How do we change the thinking of these...? I call them criminals; you can call them.... If you want to try to rehabilitate them, I don't know how that will happen, but how do we change that thinking?
Clinical Director, Little Warriors
From my perspective, I think we don't have proper deterrents in place. I think that is an incredibly clear example of misogyny, and our systems are not in place to protect people.
My thoughts on that are that prior to that happening, as we've talked about today, there were probably numerous red flags in the community and within families that unfortunately could have predicted that.
Conservative
Anna Roberts Conservative King—Vaughan, ON
We need to make sure that the community, the families, the friends and everyone who is around these situations comes out and speaks up about it so that this doesn't happen.
However, I think that a lot of times women are so intimidated that they're afraid for their own safety and the safety of their own families because they are living in a very similar situation. How do we change the law to make sure that these issues and these crimes don't continue?
Do you have any suggestions besides putting these people in jail forever?
Clinical Director, Little Warriors
I certainly think it's a matter of having clear deterrents, and when people are charged, we have to follow through with those charges. We see that this doesn't happen.
One other thought I have is that there is, and should be, a duty to report this. The conflict there is that in having a duty to report, there are women and other vulnerable populations who don't feel that they can, because they can't safely report what they know is happening in their homes and in their communities.