Status of Women Committee on Nov. 25th, 2024

[Amy Jarrette]

Society is best protected when offenders are gradually reintegrated into society under supervised release, rather than at the end of their sentence, with no controls or supports. We have a number of measures in place in order to safely supervise offenders. These include special conditions that can be imposed by the Parole Board and access to community programming and other supports in the community to help them address their risk factors.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

How would you explain that to Esther, whose aunt was killed by this repeat offender who had been let out on conditional bail? There was no accountability taken for him, and he obviously didn't follow the rules.

We've heard a lot at this committee that women feel that if they go and report the crime, the individual.... Police have told us numerous times that they arrest the criminals over and over again, and guess what? They get let out on bail.

Women refuse to come forward because they're afraid that if they do, it's only going to make it worse for them.

[Amy Jarrette]

I think this speaks to the broader societal issue. Again, though, I have to come back to our results, which are that almost 90% of offenders are not coming back to federal custody five years postsentence expiry.

In our approach to corrections, public safety is paramount. That is a paramount consideration in the CCRA, and it drives all that we do in Corrections.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

As we all know, we were called back to this committee in the summer because of the urgency of a 75% increase in violence against women. How can we ensure the protection of women if we're not going to hold the criminals accountable?

[Amy Jarrette]

Actually, holding criminals accountable is a key component of our correctional planning, and it's key to the approach that the Correctional Service of Canada takes. It is part of the assessment process for offenders that they must demonstrate accountability for their actions. As part of the security assessment, in order for them to be classified to lower levels of security, they need to demonstrate that they are accountable for their actions.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

I recently spoke to an individual—she's asked me not to mention her name, so I'll respect that—from my riding whose mother was continually abused, and the husband was also abusing the children. She reported it to the police. The police came in and arrested the individual. However, because it was, according to them, the first time she had reported it, he was let out on bail. He went back to the home that he had been ordered to not go back to and almost beat the mother to a pulp, along with one of the children, who stepped in to try to save their mother.

How can we protect women from these types of crimes? They're afraid to report them. They're afraid that if they report them, things are going to get worse.

[Amy Jarrette]

CSC is responsible for administering sentences that are imposed by the courts, so we are responsible for only those who enter into our care and custody.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

If this gentleman would have been put into your care or custody and, hopefully, had received your intervention—and it helped him realize what he was doing was wrong—and was let out, do you think that would have prevented him from reoffending?

[Amy Jarrette]

I can speak to results.

What I can say is that sex offender programming, as well as violence against an intimate partner, is part of our integrated correctional program model. That model has proven to be successful.

It is evidence-based, and it has reduced the number of offenders. For those who have undergone the ICPM model and have completed it, the numbers returning to custody on conditional release are approximately half of those who don't. It is a model that is based on evidence and has been shown to work.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

Thank you.

MP Damoff, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Thank you.

I want to thank you, as well as Ms. Neil, for being here today. Appointing a deputy commissioner for indigenous people in Corrections was something that I can't tell you how happy I was to see, and it's great to have you here at committee.

I want to talk a bit about coercive control and give you some examples.

Emily O'Brien is a woman who founded Comeback Snacks. She went on a holiday to the Caribbean with her boyfriend at the time, who took her passport and told her that she needed to smuggle drugs back to Canada or she would be staying at the island. He had her passport. She smuggled the drugs. She went to jail. She was caught in mandatory minimums because there was no ability for the judge to give any discretion on her sentencing. She fully acknowledges that she did wrong, She served her time, and she's been doing really well.

I met a woman at Buffalo Sage Healing Lodge who assaulted her abusive partner. She, too, was subject to mandatory minimums and ended up being sentenced to jail.

At the Edmonton institute for women, two women I spoke to had been trafficked by pimps and were selling drugs. Again, mandatory minimums sent them to federal institutions.

I think all of us would agree that coercive control was responsible, and that jail was probably not the best place to send these women. They did commit an offence, but giving them a criminal record and making their lives hard to find housing and a job and everything else when they get released.... I'm proud that we've removed mandatory minimums on sentences like these women got.

You mentioned a bit about coercive control. What kind of programming do you have for women when they're sent to prison and have been in this situation? In my experience, the women I've met are there because of coercive control, addictions or mental health issues.

[Amy Jarrette]

Thank you for that.

Our women's correctional programs are designed to be responsive to the unique needs of women, which is in keeping with the key principles of the CCRA.

Both the women offender correctional model and the indigenous stream are in line with the principles that are found in “Creating Choices”, a report issued by a task force in 1990 that came up with five key principles that govern women's corrections. For women, they provide a continuum of care right from intake through to sentence expiry. They really help them to improve their skills and knowledge and how to recognize unhealthy relationships and how to build healthy relationships.

Research demonstrates that the IWOCP and the WOCP have been effective in helping women overcome the issues that brought them into the criminal justice system. We—

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

I'm going to stop you there just because I have a couple of other questions I want to get to.

This one is for Ms. Neil, I think.

I want to talk about healing lodges. I distinctly remember one of the women there saying that it was the first time in her life she was able to heal and not just survive. I personally think that we should be putting a lot more investments into healing lodges. We see women leaving there who actually have the life skills to be able to survive on the outside.

I'm just wondering if you could talk a bit about investments that CSC may be making in healing lodges.

[Kathy Neil, Deputy Commissioner, Indigenous Corrections, Correctional Service of Canada]

Good morning. Thank you for the question. It's nice to see you again.

I'm of the same opinion as you that healing lodges are a key component of CSC's ability to help the rehabilitation of our indigenous people, as well as to support call to action 32, which is to commit to alternative justice measures. In 2017, I believe, CSC amended the funding allocation for healing lodges so that the section 81s would have a fixed rate so that they wouldn't go below a certain rate, in order for us to meet all of their fixed costs on a steady basis, regardless of their bed utilization.

Another significant investment we've made that I think has done very well is at the Okimaw Ohci healing lodge. That program integrates indigenous cultural healing with western medicine. We did add resources there in order to have that integration supported by that band where the healing lodge is located.

In addition to this, as we—

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

I'm sorry. I have one last question. Would you be able to send some of those investments to the committee, Ms. Neil, if you don't mind, so that we have them?

I wonder if CSC could provide us with information on CoSA. I don't expect you to necessarily know about the program. It's Circles of Support and Accountability. It's a volunteer organization that has incredible success with sex offenders who are released into the community.

I don't know, Ms. Jarrette, if you have any information on it. Could you perhaps provide us with some information on the work they do?

[Amy Jarrette]

Absolutely, we will do so. I'm not in a position to provide information at this time. However, I can say that volunteers are the lifeblood of our organization. We have thousands of volunteers who support our mandate, and we could not accomplish it without them. We're very appreciative of the work they do. I think that if we can't bring the offender into the community, bringing individuals from the community into our institutions is a very key part of accomplishing our mandate.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

Thank you.

Next, we have MP Larouche.

You have the floor for six minutes.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Ladies, thank you for being here for today's meeting, which falls on the International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women.

A variety of organizations work with victims. We've heard repeatedly this morning that people don't have faith in the system.

Quebec released a report about how to rebuild that trust, entitled “Rebâtir la confiance”. We have a long way to go, and rebuilding trust is very much necessary.

Over the years, women have lost faith in the system. They can't come forward to report the violence they are experiencing. The witnesses underscored that point this morning, and I also heard it on the radio this morning. That lack of trust was raised, as was the fact that far too many women do not report the violence they experience.

The lack of data is another issue that was raised. The Canadian Group of the Inter-Parliamentary Union met with a panel of experts, and I listened to what they had to say. Many of the issues that came up had to do with a lack of data. We don't know the statistics. We don't know exactly how many women do not come forward to report the violence they are experiencing.

We talked about that with the previous panel as well. Because of the lack of data, we don't know where things truly stand with women with disabilities, indigenous women, who are overrepresented, or seniors. That lack of trust is an important factor.

Quebec set up specialized courts that support victims. Quebec also introduced the use of electronic bracelets, which was a recommendation in the “Rebâtir la confiance” report.

People who work with victims also told us that victims need a safety net.

Ms. Jarrette, what role do you play in the effort to restore victims' trust in the system so that they do come forward about the violence being perpetrated against them? It's about trying to convince them that their concerns have been heard.

[Amy Jarrette]

I'll try to touch on the key elements.

The first is with respect to confidence in the system and access to information. CSC makes available a range of information about its programs, policies and results. We have an annual departmental results report. We also regularly conduct research, and those results are all publicly available.

With respect to information for victims of crime, we have almost 9,000 individuals who have registered to receive information from the Correctional Service of Canada, and we are committed to providing them timely and relevant information about the offenders who harmed them.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

They're worried about their attacker wanting to get revenge. It's a critical time.

You said that abusers were often abused themselves. That has been proven. We talked about it last week. For example, a major rape trial is under way in France. It, too, has shown that experiencing this kind of trauma perpetuates the violence.

I understand that it's important to work on that trauma. Awareness and education are also paramount. As we speak, women are the targets of hate crimes, misogynistic behaviour and gratuitous violence galore, just because they are women.

How do you see your educational role, which is definitely more and more important?

Do you tend to adopt a therapy-based approach that focuses on past trauma?

I'm trying to get a better sense of the work you do with criminals.

[Amy Jarrette]

Our offender programming does target intimate partner violence, gender-based violence. The integrated correctional program model that we use is an evidence-based approach that directly targets that. Offenders at intake are screened and are assessed on whether or not they are perpetrators of intimate partner violence, or sexual offenders. Then they receive appropriate programming that directly targets those risk factors. That programming has proven to be effective and has results.

I mentioned earlier that those who had received had completed their integrated programming, which includes gender-based violence, have significantly reduced their rates of return to custody when they are on conditional release.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Coercive control is another issue that has been discussed, meaning there is a need to educate people about it.

A bill is currently before Parliament to make coercive control a crime, Bill C‑332. It is often argued that the authorities have fewer tools to intervene when coercive control is not criminalized.

What do you think of the bill? What is your view on criminalizing coercive control?

[Amy Jarrette]

I typically only speak to those who are in our custody and I can say that we have robust processes. Our staff are trained to recognize signs of intimate partner violence and to be able to develop correctional programs that directly target those risk factors and the risk of reoffending.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

Thank you.

MP Gazan, you have the floor for six minutes, please.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much.

Thank you so much for joining us today, witnesses.

I know that my colleague, Pam Damoff, mentioned some of the demographics of people who are often incarcerated:

About 82% of women in prison are jailed as a result of behaviour related to attempts to cope with poverty, histories of abuse, and addiction and mental health issues that commonly arise from these experiences.

This is from “Policy4Women-Public space, public engagement”.

It says:

Indigenous women, most notably, are hyper-responsibilized and then deputized: they are made responsible for their own safety from victimization and for the safety of those for whom they care.

It goes on to say:

If a woman uses force to protect herself or others – especially if a weapon is involved – she will commonly face the full, often disproportionate, weight of the law.

This is speaking more specifically to racialized women, and goes on to say:

The vast majority of women charged for using reactive—usually defensive—force, don’t pursue a legal defence and are likely to plead guilty [or take plea bargaining].

This is why I was pleased about some of the changes and amendments for mandatory sentences and dealing with ongoing systemic racism in the justice system.

One of the things I've often spoken about regarding prisons is that it's hard to create pro-social behaviour in anti-social environments. Here, I want to speak particularly to a report by the Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies on cases of sexual violence within prisons.

In October 2020, the report stated that the Office of the Correctional Investigator conducted a national investigation into sexual coercion and violence in federal corrections. According to the report, Canada is behind when it comes to addressing sexual violence behind bars.

The OCI describes CSC's organizational indifference and lack of leadership in tackling the problem of sexual coercion. It says:

The OCI makes clear recommendations to begin addressing the pervasive issue of sexual coercion and violence inside federal prisons, yet these recommendations were not accepted by the Minister of Public Safety.

This specific report speaks about prisoners having reported instances of sexual violence perpetrated by CSC staff, unwelcome comments, sexual looks, sexual harassment and sexual assault where a survivor did not report the incident for eight months for fear of that reporting having an impact on an upcoming parole hearing. In two of those cases, correctional officers were charged with sexual assault.

When reporting sexual violence, the report also goes on to say that prisoners are often disbelieved or fear retaliation.

It also speaks about the inappropriate use of strip searches. It came up with four recommendations.

What has CSC done to deal with violence that is perpetrated against women and gender-diverse people within penitentiaries?