Status of Women Committee on Nov. 25th, 2024

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

Let's remember to speak through the chair.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

I'm sorry, Chair.

While my colleague spoke highly of it here, what she posted on social media and what her colleague, a fellow MP, posted was not positive whatsoever. Also, moms can't participate if they've been convicted of an offence against a child or an offence that could reasonably be seen as endangering a child, and they're not subject to a court order or other legal requirement prohibiting contact with the child.

I think it's really important to get the actual facts out about the program and not misinformation to just generate outrage. Moms who are part of it are also required to participate in parenting skills training. It's believed that at least 25,000 children in Canada have a mom in prison, and StatsCan's most recent data, from 2011, showed that 48% of children residing in foster care are indigenous and that the majority of those kids have incarcerated moms. Overall, children of incarcerated mothers appear to be subject to more instability both before and after incarceration.

Anyway, Madam Chair, we are very supportive of doing this study. I would like to propose an amendment, however. I will keep one copy....

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

I can distribute that while you talk.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Thank you.

The motion would be amended as follows:

That the committee undertake a study of no less than three meetings on the institutional mother-child program immediately following the conclusion of the study on the rise in violence directed towards 2SLGBTQI+ and invite (i) the Minister of Public Safety, Democratic Institutions and Intergovernmental Affairs, (ii) the Commissioner of Correctional Services Canada

—and then we've added the following witnesses—

(iii) Emilie Coyle, executive director, Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies (iv) Senator Kim Pate, (v) Dr. Ivan Zinger, correctional investigator, (vi) Dr. Ben Roebuck, ombudsperson for the victims of crime, (vii) Benjamin Perrin, author, (viii) Emily O'Brien, founder, Comeback Snacks, (ix) Marlene Orr, chief executive officer, Native Counselling Services of Alberta, (x) Sandra Delaronde, Director of Giganawenimaanaanig, and that the committee reports its findings and recommendations to the House, and that pursuant to Standing Order 109, the committee request that the government table a comprehensive response to the report.

I'll move the amendment, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

Would it be prudent of us to indulge both the NDP and the Bloc to include a witness as well?

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

We can always add more.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

We can add more.

I'll stick to your amendment.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Yes, my amendment still remains, Chair, and we could add, “and other witnesses as submitted by committee members.”

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

Okay, thank you.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

This is something we've done at the public safety and the ethics committees, where we've actually listed witnesses. It doesn't preclude others from being—

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

Okay, we have a motion on the table.

First, we have to deal with the amendment. Thank you.

Leah, go ahead.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I'm supportive of the amendment and the proposed study. I think it's a very important study, particularly with our current study on gender-based violence, and particularly in Manitoba and the Prairies, where 85% of incarcerated persons—women—were the fastest growing population of incarcerated persons, which is much related to what we spoke about today regarding intergenerational trauma and colonization.

We talk about reconciliation, and we need to reconcile with the consequences it has had, particularly on indigenous and Black communities in this country; as the late Percy Tuesday, a residential school survivor, said, “Prisons are the new residential schools.”

I'm very supportive of the proposed study and how it would help to reunify and heal families.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

Oh, Michelle, you were on the speaking list. I'm sorry.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Yes, you forgot me, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

I did.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you.

I have no issue with this. I just want to clarify, again, that this has nothing to do with that, and to my colleague's point, I have a message here from Rodney Stafford.

It's the issue of the sex offenders and the child-killers who are sharing the same space as the program. That's never been studied. That's the issue, and I think we have to do due diligence on that.

I agree 100% with everything else. It's very important.

I ran into Terri-Lynne McClintic right outside the mother-child program. I saw it, and maybe it's an unintended consequence of the program, so I'll throw you a bone, but I think that—

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

I have a point of order. I think we're debating the motion.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

I'm just responding to what Ms. Damoff said.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

Let's first speak to the amendment. Are we good with the amendment?

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Yes. The only question I have is about there being no less than three meetings.

From a clerk's perspective, regarding “immediately following the conclusion of the study on the rise in violence directed towards”, when is that? Is that the next study?

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Tina Miller]

Yes, that's the next study.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Is there any appetite to do this study first, just based on what is happening?

Is there any negotiation on that? Do you just want to do it after?

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

First, we have Sonia, and then we will go to Andréanne.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Madam Chair, I support my colleague's amendment to the motion. The witnesses she's proposing for the panel have extensive expertise on human rights. We need to hear from them to get a complete picture of the institutional mother-child program.

It's also essential that we go ahead with the study we are doing on violence against the 2SLGBTQ+ community first, because violence against that community is also on the rise.

However, I'm very supportive of the amendment because the data is crucial. We need to see the picture and to see what is there.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

Go ahead, Andréanne.