Status of Women Committee on Dec. 11th, 2024

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I have a question for everybody, and you can just show me with a nod or a wave of a hand. How many of you have clients you work with or advocate for who have been victims of crime?

Of the people who put their hand up, I'll go to Mylène first.

Were there any charges laid on the abuser or person who attacked your client? What happened, criminally, to that person?

[Mylène de Repentigny-Corbeil]

Thank you for the question.

A number of cases come to mind. Some people were victims of crime, but they didn't want to turn to the police, as we discussed, because of police violence and the climate of mistrust towards the police. Others started proceedings, but these proceedings stopped for a variety of reasons. These situations arise often in the organizations that we represent.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Okay. I'll be more specific.

Have any of your clients been victims of a crime for which criminal charges laid?

[Mylène de Repentigny-Corbeil]

No, no one specifically.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

It's nobody? None of you? Okay.

When we talk about hate crime.... Okay. I'll leave that.

I think a big piece of this study is looking at the justice system and how we stop crime, but I guess what I'll do is go back to a piece of legislation that I think can help a lot of folks, because I think that right now what's happening is that we're having a lot of issues online, in particular with predators and with people who are particularly targeting children.

I want to just put Bill C-412 on the record again. I think it might be of interest to a lot of the witnesses here. It would put on a duty of care for social media platforms, but it would also allow judges to release the name of the person who is sharing intimate images or sharing images without consent.

I guess my question to you, then, would be this: Would you support a bill like that? If there could be a show of hands or a nod, I think that helps....

Are there no comments?

I can't see your name down in the corner. I believe it's Jason.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

It's Mr. Schilling.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Mr. Schilling, are you seeing this in terms of the schools? Obviously, the kids are using a lot of social media platforms. Are you seeing an increase in sextortion or of kids being at risk from shared intimate personal images?

[Jason Schilling]

That's not necessarily the kind of data or information that we would secure at The Alberta Teachers' Association. It would be more within the realms of the police and the RCMP that those would be dealt with.

However, through the last several years we are seeing an increase in bullying in the use of social media. We just passed a cellphone policy here within the province of Alberta, and part of that cellphone policy is to limit the use of social media sites on school Wi-Fi, but it doesn't prevent kids from going to their own data and using their data that way.

Again, it's about looking at ways to educate students about whether they are being targeted and what that looks like—what the signals are, how that is happening, who to turn to and who to talk to. To make sure that we are providing opportunities for kids to get that kind of education is really important. That's one of our concerns about the legislation here, and opting in, and knowing that potentially there could be censorship on the materials that are presented to kids, materials that have the knowledge that they need in order to know how it affects their lives.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thanks. I'm all done. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

Thank you.

MP Serré, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Tremblay, you spoke about members of Parliament giving public speeches that contribute to hate towards people in your community.

Could you elaborate on this?

[Dave Tremblay]

This was part of my recommendations. The goal is to avoid giving public speeches and taking stances that can stir up hate. This is based on the Quebec experience. We recently heard some fiery speeches in Quebec.

Ms. de Repentigny‑Corbeil said earlier that we've heard much more about gender‑neutral toilets in Quebec than about the lack of teachers. We've heard public speeches on the topic. Politicians have talked at length about public toilets. However, their understanding of the situation was wrong. We think that politicians must lead by example.

Today, you're all here to talk about the rise of hate towards 2SLGBTQI+ communities. It's important to do so.

That said, every day, politicians have a social duty when they give speeches. The politicians' position carries a social responsibility. They must remain aware that their words will be repeated and that they may legitimize stances that stir up hate.

For example, we hear about trans women not being accepted in women's sports or hormone blockers being denied to questioning young people.

A number of public speeches legitimize stances that encourage the exclusion of trans people in particular.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Tremblay.

Mr. Schilling, thank you for what you do as a teacher and as president of the association.

With regard to the discussion about how political ideologies are influencing universities and public schools, the Leader of the Opposition, Pierre Poilievre, noted that he had supported the Conservative premiers in Saskatchewan and New Brunswick who had implemented provincial policies requiring principals and teachers to inform parents—we heard this clearly today—and get their consent for their children to change their pronouns and their names in school. That is saying that a political leader who is aspiring to be Prime Minister of this country supports these laws that the provincial government is putting in place.

Can you comment on that, please?

[Jason Schilling]

It's a really good question and it's a good point. I think that Zipp, who has spoken so well today, sort of hinted at this as well.

Part of our commentary around Bill 27 and the other legislation that has been passed here in Alberta is that we need to depoliticize this issue. This shouldn't be something that is discussed by politicians in the legislature. This is a private, complex and nuanced conversation between children, their parents and their medical doctors.

I've said it before in the media many times that this is a sledgehammer approach to a really delicate situation, and we need to ensure that our students and their families have the supports. Quite honestly, we are lacking funding around mental health supports and other supports for families within our community. I think this is something that needs to be taken out of the realm of the legislature.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you.

Obviously we have Conservative members here who are very supportive, but on the questions that we're looking at here, it's a political leader who is making these comments.

Ms. Dike-Hart, as part of the association, can you also comment on how political leadership is making a difference and influencing some of that hate?

[Daphne Dike-Hart]

As I said in my introduction, your queerness or your transness shouldn't really be a political issue. That's one.

Second, hate doesn't come from nowhere. When political leaders make comments like this, they're inciting hate. The public that is following you will follow suit with what you're saying. We all need to be careful with how we speak on this matter.

It really shouldn't be a conversation. The medical professionals have said what is right, and that is evidence-based. We can follow suit with what they're saying. With the parents and the child, at the end of the day, our utmost priority should be the happiness and the survival of that child.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

Thank you.

MP Larouche, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Prevention has come up a great deal. I hope to have time to come back to that topic.

However, I would like to talk about the loss of trust in the justice system.

Ms. de Repentigny‑Corbeil addressed this issue when she said that the rhetoric went further and that it was not only transphobic and homophobic, but also misogynistic.

Given this rise in hate speech, we really need to rebuild trust in the justice system. Of course, we need to work on prevention. However, once a crime has been committed, victims must feel confident about filing a complaint.

The phrase “rebuilding trust” came up in our study. We strongly associated it with restoring women's trust in approaching the police and reporting their abusers.

Mr. Tremblay, could we draw inspiration from any Quebec initiatives to rebuild trust in the justice system for people in LGBTQ+ communities?

[Dave Tremblay]

I see Ms. de Repentigny‑Corbeil nodding.

Quebec has indeed addressed the issue, especially given the domestic violence that affects women.

Quebec decided to tackle this issue by launching a reform of the system. This involved creating the court specialized in sexual violence and domestic violence. In addition, Quebec provided training for both judges and police officers. Quebec also launched the victims of crime initiative, or IVAC.

Quebec is training the people in the justice system who work with victims. The goal is to ensure that victims can turn to people who know the system.

I believe in the need to support victims when they file a complaint, particularly when it affects their identity and in situations where they feel particularly vulnerable, such as in front of a person in authority.

We could draw inspiration from this system, even though we don't want to make clumsy comparisons between the two situations.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

I don't have much time left.

Ms. de Repentigny‑Corbeil, I'll let you comment.

[Mylène de Repentigny-Corbeil]

Thank you.

My answer ties in with previous discussions. I want to remind you that Canada ratified the International Convention on the Rights of the Child, which requires the state to protect children against all forms of discrimination.

Parental rights aren't legislated rights. The same applies to international law and Canada's position on it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

Thank you.

MP Gazan, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

My last question is for you, Zipp. When I grow up, I want to be just like you, but I have grown up, so I'll never be as good as you. I will quote you. How do you like that?

Before the last quote, you said:

At what point do I go from being someone you protect to someone who is a threat, not based on my heart or any of my actions, but just based on my genitalia, and your ignorant ideas of what you think who I am means...?

You said that. Can you expand on that?

[Zipp Neufeld]

Yes, I can. That was a while ago.

When I said that, I was talking about bathrooms and stuff. They were saying how trans women shouldn't be allowed to go into women's bathrooms because of misinformation about their intentions, which, in my opinion, is ridiculous.

What I meant by that was that because I'm a kid, there are laws saying you should protect me. I'm a child. At what point does it go from me being someone who has rights and should be protected to someone who is wrong and shouldn't be allowed to be in a comfortable space, and not based on anything I've done?

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I think it's quite a stupid discussion, Zipp. What's the big deal about having a gender-neutral washroom? Why is this a topic of discussion?

You said it was stupid, right? I'm using the word “stupid”. I'm using more of.... I think it's quite stupid. I'm wondering what the hysteria is about a toilet. I'm wondering why there's so much focus on a toilet.

How does that hysteria around a toilet make you feel? It's ridiculous to me.