Status of Women Committee on April 26th, 2022

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Madam Chair—

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Sorry about that, Sylvie.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

There is no problem.

Given everything we've heard, there's no doubt that there must be zero tolerance now. We can't say that enough.

According to the witnesses here today, what other reasons could explain this violence against indigenous women and women in general in a resource development context?

[Leslie Varley]

I can go first.

I think it's still there because we still allow it to be there. We still allow the resource industry to use indigenous women and girls without full accountability. I think that's the only reason it's still there, because we haven't mandated and we haven't required any changes. It's completely possible, as Diane Redsky outlined, how we can make these changes.

[Ninu Kang]

Leslie, if I can follow up on what you're saying, one thing we also need to acknowledge is that the leadership and middle management of these companies are predominately still white men. When you think about trying to make any systemic changes within these corporations, on the ground level, you don't have individuals working in those areas who can actually bring the intel of the indigenous experience. What we're really trying to do is to mesh water and oil together.

I think that needs to be acknowledged. Unless there's some promotion of leadership within these corporations, it's very difficult for me to imagine what change would look like there.

[Dr. Debbra Greig]

If I can carry on, the root of everything is the self. If you have a culture of people who are aggressive, they're going to be aggressive in all sorts of ways.

I would suggest that all of the resource developers have psychologists write assessments, and all of the people who are going to work there do assessments. You can screen out misogyny and you can screen out violence. You can screen out all sorts of things through psychological testing. That could be done, and that would improve things all over the place.

The root of all violence and aggressive behaviour is the self. If you have immature, undeveloped personalities coming into these camps, you're going to get all the havoc, the misogyny and the violence. If you have well-developed people coming in, they're going to treat each other respectfully. You need to be looking at who's coming in, and you can see who's coming in if you do psychological testing.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

You also talked about the changes needed to do this. What concrete measures need to be put in place to counter this phenomenon of violence against women? In your opinion, who should put them in place?

[Dr. Debbra Greig]

Government needs to have the resources available and make the resource developers responsible for assessing who's coming into these camps and these areas.

Government also needs to make resources available to uplift the people so that they are empowered. If they are empowered people, they're not going to be victims. Everything is rooted in the self, and if you have well-developed selves everywhere, you're going to have a harmonious and respectful environment. If you have areas of the population that don't have well-developed selves and who are immature.... Immature people or violent people will treat each other badly. You need to cultivate the empowerment of the self and make it healthy everywhere.

[Ninu Kang]

The only thing I would add is that in addition to looking at the individual as a problem, I think we need to look at it as a systemic issue. In addition to what I said earlier, it is sometimes easier to think about it as these are some individuals who are bad, so we could just pluck them away and put them somewhere else. I think if we're not addressing the systemic issue....

If you think about who can do what, here in Vancouver, if a developer is going to put a building up, they have to give up a certain amount of amenity space to the community for free. When I hear what Debbra and Leslie are both talking about, this is about mandating. It is about putting in policy at the highest level of our federal government that says that when these corporations come into communities, they have to put a chunk of their money into that community.

I don't want to repeat what was said with regard to having this be a co-development of resources.

[Diane Redsky]

I want to say two quick things. Let's not forget that there are really harmful stereotypes about who indigenous women are, and we are often targeted. It's not because we have low self-esteem, it is because we are targeted by people who are intent on hurting us.

The second thing is that the answers are going to be at the community level. Making significant investments into indigenous-led organizations and indigenous communities are vital in this whole response, because that's where the answers are.

Meegwetch.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

You have 10 seconds.

[Leslie Varley]

I agree. I want to say that indigenous women have long been targeted, and that has been acceptable in Canadian society as a whole. Government has some responsibility in addressing this and ensuring that Canadians understand that we are also human beings and that we should have the same rights as every other Canadian.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you so much.

We're now going to move back to Leah Gazan.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much.

I think the discussion about the dehumanization of indigenous women is really critical here. I think a lot of people still don't realize that indigenous women in real time, today, under the Indian Act, never mind not having the same rights as men, still don't have the same rights as other women. It's why this study is so important and why I am so grateful to the committee for being open to these really difficult discussions.

My question is for Madam Kang or Madam Varley.

You spoke a little bit about safe transportation. I was horrified when Greyhound bus services were cut. The MMIWG Coalition, which your organization was part of, identified the critical need for “safe, affordable and reliable” transportation and noted that its absence would lead to an increase in “hitchiking, which is directly correlated to the ongoing crisis of murdered and missing Indigenous women and girls across the country.”

I can only think of the Highway of Tears in B.C., where you're from, and the tragic stories and unsolved stories that we've heard.

Could you please share how safe, affordable and reliable transportation would make a difference in keeping indigenous women and girls, 2SLGBTQ+ individuals safe in rural and remote areas where resource development projects frequently take place?

[Leslie Varley]

I'm happy to speak to that.

I grew up in northern B.C. and even as a young girl going to elementary school and starting high school, if I were walking in my little town, I was being cruised by older men trying to pick me up. Physically, indigenous women are always targeted in this way and that hasn't changed in those small northern towns. Now one of the best places to look for indigenous women is along the highways where they're trying to hitchhike to go to visit a friend or go to a doctor's appointment, or for whatever reason.

So, yes, these transportation.... It's not just the Greyhound bus closing down, but also we have some other sectors that are providing services. You can only get on the health bus if you have a health issue and you have to have a prescription; or you can only get a ride into town if you're from one of the first nations communities, or if you have proof that you're going to see your doctor. It's ridiculous how that bus drives empty up and down the highways all day and through our communities because people don't have the right documentation to get a ride.

Yes, it could be better coordinated and better organized for our people.

Friendship centres are trying to provide little routes between centres. We have a few buses and cars up there, and we're trying to provide cellphones to make it safer for women who, indeed, actually have to hitchhike.

It isn't safe and we need to create more safety. We enjoy this kind of safety in the city. I can hop on a bus any time and go just about anywhere I want within the 50-mile radius, but up in the north that's absolutely not possible and it's not safe.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Would you say that providing transportation would actually save lives, yes or no?

[Leslie Varley]

Yes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much.

I want to move on to Madam Diane Redsky.

Part of this study, and it's certainly related to our notes, has to do with Manitoba Hydro and resource development's impact on indigenous women and girls in northern Manitoba.

I know you spoke to that. Can you talk very briefly about MKO and some of the research findings and recommendations they've come up with to improve safety for women and girls and two-spirit living in northern Manitoba?

[Diane Redsky]

Yes, I can. Very briefly, this is a really important voice. It's MKO's voice. It has been really leading this issue ever since the Manitoba Clean Environment Commission released its report in 2018, which is critically important.

I am aware, and certainly would stand beside MKO on its call for a public inquiry to address all of the implications that have come out of documenting the horrific reality of indigenous women and girls, as it relates to many resource developments, and specifically, the Manitoba Hydro report.

That is critically important moving forward, to support them, to really do a deep dive, similarly to what you're doing here. We really have to get at the root of what the challenges are. Most importantly, how can we prevent this, and how can we support those relationships that exist?

It's really important that in our society industry, government and communities work hand in hand to ensure they are all working toward public safety, and in particular, the safety of indigenous women and girls in all aspects of what they do.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you so much.

We're now going to go back to our rounds of five minutes, and two and a half minutes.

I'm going to start that off with Shelby, for five minutes.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Shelby has passed her time on to me.

This has provided many solutions for me as we go around the table, and I listen to each of you.

Ms. Redsky, I'm wondering if there are any stats on men with money who are transient.

[Diane Redsky]

That would pretty much align with the industry sector. That would be my answer.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Okay, fair enough.

I want to go back to Debbra, because we were talking, and I aligned greatly with what you were saying about self and self-regulation. It's sort of a key to breaking a lot of systemic trauma and patterns that we do as people. I'm very interested in that, as well. What do you think those solutions are?

I asked you about truth and reconciliation. I'm going to go back to another recommendation, and I have a feeling you're going to say the same thing. This is under “Education”:

7. We call upon the federal government to develop with Aboriginal groups a joint strategy to eliminate educational and employment gaps between Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal Canadians.

Do you feel the federal government is doing this?

[Dr. Debbra Greig]

No. It might be trying, but it's not very good at it. It's a huge problem. It's a programming system, and that program doesn't match the indigenous program. The indigenous natural program is self-sustaining, vibrant, balanced, harmonious and equilateral. The government system preaches something else, and indoctrinates people with something else. It's indoctrinating a conflict of consciousness. That's very wrong, as far as I'm concerned. It's another sign of colonialism.

The entire education system needs to be sensitized. It needs to take lessons from the lifestyle, spirituality, and the mindset of indigenous people, and it doesn't do that. It's pooh-poohed and minimized, because [Inaudible—Editor]

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

I agree with you.

That comes back to the recommendations from Diane about holistic.... I'm going to go back to what I witnessed this past week. It was very timely for me, being in Alberta and sitting at a chamber of commerce meeting where we were talking about employment, the tourism sector and pipelines.

We had this beautiful amazing chief. It was the first time she had been invited to the table, and an amazing thing happened. The city didn't realize its housing issues were being extremely stressed because of the workers on the pipeline. Many indigenous from the first nations were working on it, and she said, “Well, we're injecting money into your economy.” Until the city sat at the table, it didn't know the stress that had been created. Both wanted to reap the benefits of the resource development and economic reconciliation, and they were both happy with that.

Would everybody agree on this panel that we do need resource development and we need economic reconciliation? Is there a big but after that? Can we agree we all need resource development to inject money into our economy?