Status of Women Committee on April 26th, 2022

[Leslie Varley]

Yes.

[Diane Redsky]

Yes.

[Ninu Kang]

Yes.

[Dr. Debbra Greig]

Yes.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

I think now the “but” of implementing how it can all work to benefit better comes into play. I'm going to ask if some of these things would work.

One of the big issues.... I want to point out what my colleague from the NDP said. It is important to recognize that we wouldn't be in this position had it not been for colonialization. I want to take a moment to recognize that we're here because of that. We're here now, so what are we going to do now? I want to be on the record as recognizing that.

“For indigenous, by indigenous” is very much a Conservative mandate. When I saw this chamber of commerce table.... All of a sudden, by the end of it, they had come up with amazing solutions. I'm a big believer in incentivization. What about incentivizing—

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

You ran out of time. I'm sorry about that.

We're going to now go to Anita for five minutes.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Thank you very much.

I really want to thank our witnesses today for the very enlightening and also some very powerful recommendations that you've provided us.

I'd like to delve a bit into what I'm, in my mind, starting to hear, which is really about impunity. It goes back to some of the things that you've said. Ms. Varley, you used a term that was really quite alarming: “accepted collateral damage”. Indigenous women and girls are accepted collateral damage.

Ms. Redsky, you described the stereotypes and this assumption that indigenous women will do anything for money. There was the cruising that Ms. Varley referred to. Ms. Greig, there's this notion—and it's interesting you used the word “apathy”—that there's a disempowerment and indigenous women are in a state of apathy. It is really hard, as legislators, to try to develop programming or funding models that can address those kinds of very deeply entrenched, historic, colonial and societal notions that, in many cases, are probably even unconscious. They're perpetuated and they're internalized, but they're also perpetuated when women are treated as objects and objectified.

There's a lot of money in the budget. In the last budget, there was something like $860 million for safety in indigenous communities. We've got money in this budget, with $500-and-some million to fight gender-based violence, yet what I'm hearing from you is that resources aren't there or when resources are there, they are not being co-managed and developed with the input of the women who are impacted.

Can you give us advice? What is it that we can do, particularly as a committee making recommendations, that will allow us as legislators and the government to provide the resources that could then be used to address this overwhelming impunity with which the transient men and others who you're talking about are getting away with these things?

I'd like each of you to answer, but I'll start with Ms. Redsky.

[Diane Redsky]

First, the solutions around.... Everything that was done throughout the national inquiry—looking at the pathways, as well as the principles of change—you really need to read in and look through that lens, because it is a holistic, interconnected approach that will no doubt change things.

That is critically important, and it could be a policy decision by this government. If you're funding indigenous-led initiatives, fund the indigenous-led organizations that go with those indigenous-led initiatives. All too often, it is not indigenous organizations receiving the funding to help us, so that only goes halfway.

The solutions have always been there. They just need the opportunity to be supported to help realize those initiatives.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Thank you. I heard your earlier comment about long-term funding as well.

Ms. Varley, go ahead, please.

[Leslie Varley]

I agree with what Diane has said.

I would just emphasize providing resources to indigenous women and girls and letting us decide how we're going to use that funding to safeguard ourselves, support ourselves and provide the right services for us. That's going to look different from province to province and community to community.

It's really important. The whole one-size-fits-all approach to violence against women nationwide isn't going to be effective for us. We need to work within our own cultures in our own communities to understand what it's going to look like for us and how we're going to support ourselves.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Thank you.

I'm thinking on the impunity side as well about what we'd do to make sure that people are held accountable. I don't know, Ms. Greig, if you wanted to weigh in on this issue.

[Dr. Debbra Greig]

I agree with what the two previous witnesses have said, totally. As far as impunity goes, the resource developers have to have commitments to be invested in the communities. The resource developers have to be held accountable for the fallout of the resource development wherever they go, constantly, and it has to be regulated, it has to be implemented and there are sanctions that have to be done.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you very much.

I'm just going to let you know that the bells are now ringing. We are almost through the fourth round. If we wish to finish it off, I would need consent from the committee to continue with our fourth round so that we can do that. The fourth round right now is scheduled to be 15 more minutes. I would need approval from everybody to continue with that.

Okay. Seeing no nays, we're going to continue with this round of questioning.

I'm now going to pass the floor over to Sylvie, then to Leah and then to Michelle. Then there is one more round for the Liberals for five minutes.

Sylvie, you have two and a half minutes. Go ahead.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I am addressing the witnesses.

You talked about the industries that develop the resources in their area. I would like to know if they should not also have a duty to put in place internal and external measures to counteract acts of violence.

Are there things that are being done or should be done about this?

[Leslie Varley]

I can begin.

Yes, I think we need to put measures in place any time that we're going into any resource development or extraction. Somebody mentioned incentivizing. We can incentivize these industries by making them put 10% up front, and they get it back if they clean up the environment and don't abuse any indigenous women and girls. That would be a great incentive, I think, and we would see some immediate change in behaviour.

[Dr. Debbra Greig]

I agree with that statement totally.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

There is a problem of access to resources to support women victims of violence, particularly because many indigenous communities are remote or in rural areas.

What do you think the needs of these communities are?

[Ninu Kang]

I believe Leslie spoke to some of these earlier.

Leslie, you spoke to housing. You spoke to transportation. I don't know whether you want to speak to some of the rural pieces in addition to that.

[Leslie Varley]

Yes, for sure.

In our rural northwestern and northeastern communities we really find it hard to hire professionals—anybody who has a social work or psychology designation. Also, are those really effective for working with indigenous families? That's something we're trying to do—to develop that capacity—but we don't have a whole lot. We don't have a history of capacity-sustained funding in order for us to develop this expertise over time. It's something that we definitely need to start working on.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you very much.

We're now going to move it over to Leah.

Leah, you have two and a half minutes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Just to correct the record, there was zero additional funding provided in this budget for MMIWG2S.

I have a question for all of the panellists. Would you say it's a false choice to force indigenous women, girls and two-spirit people to have to choose between economic reconciliation and safety from violence and exploitation? Yes or no, Madam Redsky.

[Diane Redsky]

I'm sorry, I want to make sure I understand the question.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Is it a false choice, like it's not really a choice to say you either choose your safety or economic reconciliation?

[Diane Redsky]

Right.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Is that yes or no?