Status of Women Committee on Jan. 30th, 2023

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much. My first questions are for Dr. Kerr.

I just started this study. It's very new to me. I've never followed organized sports. However, I know that, particularly in gymnastics, there has been a long and violent history of abuse of little kids.

Do you agree, yes or no, with a national judicial review or inquiry in regard to what's currently happening in sports?

[Dr. Gretchen Kerr]

I believe that our time and resources are better spent in other ways.

The calls for judicial—

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I have limited time.

I asked you that because you submitted a brief to the Standing Committee on the Status of Women in December 2022, and you said that in your opinion there were avenues available for redress other than opting into a judicial inquiry—and you're sharing that—to investigate maltreatment in Canadian sport.

However, the former minister for sport came out in the media last week saying the exact opposite.

I'll quote Kirsty Duncan, who is a former minister of sport: “It should not be a fight. I'm asking for the protection of athletes and children. There should never have been pushback.” This is what Duncan told the CBC in an exclusive interview. She went on to state, “I will not stand idly by while there are athletes, children and young people hurting in this country. And I do not accept the status quo. And if [we] do not push for an inquiry, it means accepting the status quo. And I will not be complicit.”

That came from the former minister. I mean, that's clear. She would have known what was going on as the minister.

Do you agree that there is some truth to what she's saying? Because of the rampant amounts of abuse, doesn't this call for a national inquiry in light of all the allegations and confirmed cases of abuse coming out in sport?

[Dr. Gretchen Kerr]

Well, I and others would argue that we cannot allow the status quo to continue. However, I would also argue that there are better paths forward than a judicial inquiry. The judicial inquiry will give us information we already have in terms of prevalence, effects, causes and so on. It will detract from the progress that we're making thus far. We have the information we need to implement change and to make those changes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I'm sorry, but because I have limited time and you've already submitted a report, I'd like to ask you a couple of other questions.

Do you act in an advisory capacity for other sport organizations, such as COC or AthletesCAN, yes or no?

[Dr. Gretchen Kerr]

Yes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Okay.

Is the president of AthletesCAN, Erin Willson, your Ph.D. student?

[Dr. Gretchen Kerr]

Yes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Was Ellen MacPherson, former safe sport director for Gym Can, also your Ph.D. student?

[Dr. Gretchen Kerr]

Yes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Over the past 30 years, you've had a lot of Ph.D. students. I'm a former academic. I know that much of academia is getting research grants.

In terms of research grants and funding, did you receive $1.65 million of funding from Sport Canada between 2020 and 2022?

[Dr. Gretchen Kerr]

The contract for the national research hub on gender equity has ended.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Okay, but did you receive, between 2020 and 2022, $1.65 million?

[Dr. Gretchen Kerr]

Yes, I did. The centre did.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

If there was a judicial inquiry, could that potentially...? If something happened, and let's say—I'm not saying this is your motive—it impacted the funding to Sport Canada, could that potentially indirectly affect your ability to receive grants from Sports Canada—if that organization came under jeopardy?

[Dr. Gretchen Kerr]

Absolutely not, and I'd be happy to elaborate on my rationale for that response.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Sure. Please do. You're more than welcome to submit briefs to the committee. Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of time here.

My next questions are for Ian Moss and are around Mr. Alex Bard.

Were you aware of indiscretions by Alex Bard prior to the complaints coming forward?

[Ian Moss]

I was aware of concerns with respect to some of his behaviour, and we dealt with those concerns.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I just want clarification. You spoke about how Alex Bard was not dismissed but was able to resign because of breaches of the code of conduct. What breaches were those?

[Ian Moss]

There's an element of confidentiality, I would suggest, in some of this. I don't know whether I'm allowed to breach that.

There was certainly a code-of-conduct issue in regard to one incident that occurred at a social event. As such, it was dealt with as any other code-of-conduct issue for any other individual would be.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Fair enough.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Your time is up.

I would just say that you can bring everything to us. That's not a problem. We do take all things. Non-disclosure agreements and all of those things have no impact on our committee.

Thanks so much.

I'm now going to pass it over to Warren Steinley. I believe he and Anna may be working out some times. Why don't you guys figure this out?

Warren Steinley or Anna Roberts, take the floor. You have five minutes.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I'm happy to be here with the committee.

This reminds me a lot of a conversation I had when I was younger. I grew up in Swift Current, Saskatchewan. That was where the Graham James coaching incidents happened. A lot of young men were sexually abused by their head coach.

There is a lot of talk around changes happening in sports all over this country. I feel that it's déjà vu, and these same conversations are still being had about young people and the safety of young people in sports.

I'm a huge fan of sports. I think it's great for young people to get involved, but there's always a segment of the population that gets into coaching for the wrong reasons. I think we really need to take our time, because I don't want this conversation to happen again in 20 years, when something happens to my daughter, perhaps, or another young girl in gymnastics.

One of my first questions would be this: The McLaren report actually references multiple sports in its recent report. We saw a situation with women's soccer in which a coach against whom serious allegations had been made in Ontario began to coach in British Columbia. Do you believe there needs to be a national registry to ensure that perpetrators no longer coach or are part of the association?

I will be asking Sarah that. Do you feel that is something that should fall under the OSIC?

[Sarah-Ève Pelletier]

Thank you.

First, I want to share the preoccupation that certainly from an OSIC standpoint, we do not want to see history repeating itself.

What you are referring to is a sanctions registry, a national registry of individuals who are under sanctions. We definitely share that objective that you mentioned. We firmly believe that in order to make sure individuals who are under sanctions do not have the ability to navigate the system or try to find gaps in the system, we need a registry of sanctions that is publicly accessible.

Currently our office—

Go ahead.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

I just have a couple more questions, but thank you very much for that.

I believe there should be a national registry, and I think you're on the same page.

You said in one of the briefs that you've had 24 complaints at your office already, and 16 are in limbo because the sports authority in that province or the national sport authority or governing body hasn't signed on to your office. The minister has set a deadline of April for these sports bodies to sign, so that you would be able to investigate these complaints further.

Why is it April? Why is it so long from now? I think it should be done now. Time is of the essence. I think we should make sure these bodies sign on or else their funding should be looked at, because it's important to protect our kids. I'd like to have your comments on that. Do you think the timelines are suitable, or should we speed this up so we can make sure we get rid of the bad coaches and that the good coaches have the opportunity to do their jobs?