Status of Women Committee on Feb. 6th, 2024

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

We are now on to panel two.

On panel two, I would like to welcome Catherine Miller, mayor of the Township of Pelee, who is here via video conference. Also by video conference, we have Andrea Hannen, executive director of the Association of Day Care Operators of Ontario. Then we have Peter Maddox, president of the Direct Sellers Association of Canada.

We'll provide you each with five minutes for opening remarks. When you see my hand start going like this, it means that you need to wind it up.

We're going to begin with Catherine Miller for five minutes.

You have the floor, Catherine.

[Catherine Miller, Mayor, Township of Pelee, As an Individual]

Thank you, Madam Chair and honourable members, for the opportunity to speak with you today.

I'll be presenting a bit of a different perspective today, I think. I am from the ninth-smallest municipality in Ontario, the Township of Pelee. I am honoured to serve as the township's first elected woman mayor alongside a majority female council, supported by our township's entirely female senior leadership team.

Our small and isolated island community is neighbour to Essex County, which is led by a female warden for the first time. Our provincial police services of the west region is led by a woman. The CEO of the health care network that supports our island is a woman. The director of the Crown corporation that provides ferry services to our island is a woman and happens to be a captain. The only general store and gas station on our island is run by women. The largest farming and privately owned estate winery operation on our island, and in fact across Canada, is led by a woman.

Women in leadership is just a first step. Imagine the landscape if that were the case for the next 100 years, or if it had been for the past 100. When women feel supported, healthy and able, they can stop focusing on keeping themselves safe, or fighting for a voice, and advance the work of creating prosperous environments for us all.

Women on our island and who support our island are not afraid of work. They work hard at their day-to-day jobs. In our rural municipality, generally they remain the caregivers at home. With no day care services, senior living supports or personal care workers on the island, many of Pelee Island’s women are going home at the end of the day and caring for their families and their neighbours, young and old. Women in my community are not only contributing economically; they are the backbone of caring in the community. They could use some help, though.

I am obligated to recognize some friends and neighbours who raise money on our island through an annual Hell on Heels walk in mid-October. About 20 of us walk in high heels—for most of us, it is the only time all year that we will walk in high heels—along a weather-beaten road the weekend prior to Pelee Island’s annual fall pheasant hunt. The weekend before a much-loved, historically fraternal tradition, which is now in its 93rd year, was chosen for a reason.

In 2021 we raised money to provide free period products in all public bathrooms. In 2022 we raised money to bring mental health care workshops and services to the island. In 2023 we raised money to start a potable water fund to help island families offset the very high cost of bringing potable drinking water into their homes. These socio-economic issues were selected to raise awareness around some of the well-being safety nets that are lacking and to raise that awareness with our neighbouring communities and some of our well-resourced vacation homeowners on the island, who may be able to help.

As well, our council has turned its attention to policies that support families and well-being. I am pleased that our council has supported a key family leave policy and passed an anti-harassment policy meant to protect our staff from the public harassment and bullying that seem to be on the rise.

Further, in partnership with the provincial ICON fund and the universal broadband fund, council is supporting administration in bringing a submarine cable to connect Pelee Island to high-speed Internet services by 2025, unlocking more potential, convenience and support for the women of Pelee Island in new ways that we are all excited to realize.

If women in my community can’t source day care, can’t enrol their children in school close to home, can’t find support for their aging parents, don’t feel safe from an abusive partner or neighbour and can’t see a doctor without a full day trip to the mainland, their economic empowerment is not possible. It's out of reach. I'm here to broadly highlight that primary education, senior care, health care, day care and policing are matters of economic equality for women. The Township of Pelee has little to no access to many of the agencies that are meant to support women. There are no mentoring programs. There are no skills training programs. There isn’t even a bank on our island. There are no women’s shelters or networking groups.

Unless these agencies are mandated and in fact funded to support our community, they can’t and they won’t. Pursuing women’s economic empowerment isn’t purely a financial matter within my community. The women of Pelee Island need support where they live in order to thrive and move beyond traditional roles of working in the home.

Island women help each other. They bring meals to seniors. They billet their neighbours’ children while away at high school. They keep an eye on kids on the ferry ride across the lake if their parents can’t go. They volunteer, they give back and they keep going. I am proud to attempt to be helpful here also today—to be their voice.

Thank you for having me.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you very much.

I'll now move it over to Andrea Hannen.

Andrea, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Andrea Hannen, Executive Director, Association of Day Care Operators of Ontario]

Hi. Thanks for having me here, and thank you for having such a lovely, constructive and good-natured committee.

I'm with the Association of Day Care Operators of Ontario, which represents independent, licensed child care programs, both commercial and not-for-profit programs. I've been working with child care organizations since 1993, so the aspect of women's economic empowerment that I know best is child care and, more specifically, child care entrepreneurship.

It's to the detriment of all women that child care entrepreneurs are being targeted for extinction through the nationalization of Canada's child care sector. I'm here today to ask for your help in ensuring that child care entrepreneurs have a future in Canada for generations to come.

There are a few reasons it's important. The vast majority of child care entrepreneurs are women; child care is one of the only sectors of the economy in which women have always been fairly represented in terms of business ownership and management; and child care entrepreneurs not only provide a vital service for families but also serve as role models and mentors for other women and for the children in their care.

Let me tell you a bit about child care entrepreneurs.

They don't all run licensed child care centres. Many start out as unlicensed home-based child care providers, and they're often home with their own young children at the time. Some have their ECE credentials already, and some get them later on.

Second, child care entrepreneurs rarely go into business with the goal of making a lot of money. It's not surprising, because whether you're running a licensed child care centre or a microenterprise in your own home, taking care of children is an awful lot of work.

Often, the primary motivator for child care entrepreneurs is that they want to offer the kind of care they wish they could have found for their own children. A lot of them also say that they had a lightbulb moment when they witnessed the difficulties that large institutional providers have in supporting children facing challenges. They thought, wow, there has to be a better way.

Not all child care entrepreneurs start businesses, though: Some create independent not-for-profits. Entrepreneurs might be a group of parents from a faith-based, cultural or linguistic community who want their children's early years education to reinforce certain traditions.

My final point about child care entrepreneurs is that they not only laid the foundation upon which almost all of Canada's existing child care services are based, but they continue to lead the way in terms of innovation and flexibility. They're not preoccupied with creating a national system. They're just engaged in meeting an ever-changing array of family needs each and every day.

Right now, the question many of Canada's child care entrepreneurs are asking is whether they have a place in Canada's national child care program or a future in child care at all.

They're pleased to see the government recognize the important role child care plays in ensuring equal workforce opportunities for women, and they're pleased to see a commitment to consistent funding for families who might otherwise struggle to pay for care, but Canada's child care entrepreneurs have spent much of the last three years listening to their government characterize their life's work as having so little value that the government wants to limit the expansion of their services.

Bill C-35 expressed this, albeit in softer language, but most of the federal-provincial agreements spell it out very specifically. Further, the report filed by the Senate committee that examined Bill C-35 concluded with the recommendation that the government “focus on providing funding to create a high quality public early learning and child care system”.

Just to sum up, we have a sector of the economy that was largely created by women. It's essential to women's equality in the workforce. It's one of the only economic sectors in the country where women are fairly represented as owners and managers, and it's being not only undervalued by government but targeted for replacement by a government-run system.

Child care entrepreneurs know from experience how expensive and slow to build this new system will be, that it will require higher taxes to sustain and that there's no guarantee of a better result. When we look at Quebec, 25 years in, the province is still struggling with wait-lists, staffing and quality challenges, which are supposedly the reason the growth of private licensed child care in Canada has to be stopped. In the meantime, the demand for licensed child care across the country is skyrocketing.

I come to you today in all sincerity and with respect to say that there has to be a better way, and I'm asking the committee to help us find it.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you very much. We greatly appreciate that.

We're now going to move over to Peter Maddox from the Direct Sellers Association.

Peter, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Peter Maddox, President, Direct Sellers Association of Canada]

My name is Peter Maddox, and I'm the president of the Direct Sellers Association of Canada.

Thank you to the chair and to the committee for giving me this opportunity to speak today.

DSA Canada is a national association founded in 1954. We have over 65 members across Canada, which include well-known and respected brands such as Mary Kay Cosmetics, Pampered Chef cookware, Avon cosmetics and Cutco knives.

Every year, the direct selling sales channel accounts for an estimated $3.4 billion in Canadian retail sales, creates $1.4 billion in tax contributions and contributes $1.5 billion in personal revenue to the over one million Canadians who participate as independent sales consultants, 84% of whom are women.

Similarly, many of our member companies have strong women leading their corporate executive teams in Canada. For many decades, direct selling has empowered women by offering business training and opportunities to build new skills and independence.

First, as an introduction to entrepreneurship and business ownership, direct selling is an inclusive avenue for Canadians to develop important transferable business and life skills, including sales and marketing, leadership, networking and financial management. Our member companies commit millions of dollars every year to training women in competencies that benefit their careers in direct selling and in their broader working life.

Second, ethics and trust are central to everything that DSA Canada stands for, and our members and their salespeople learn about and commit to our code of ethics annually.

Finally, direct selling helps to build and maintain strong social networks, connecting people in local communities, particularly women and seniors, and proving healthy for mental and social well-being.

Annually, DSA Canada and our members celebrate “Direct Sellers Day” to recognize positive stories and inspiring people from our industry. I would like to briefly recognize a couple of last year's award winners.

Wendy Castillo Varela of MONAT Global is a single mom who immigrated to Canada and speaks Spanish as her first language. She successfully started a construction business, but when COVID hit she was forced to be at home with limited income. When she was introduced to MONAT products, she found great success with them by sharing them with her Spanish-speaking community. In 2023, she won DSA Canada's direct seller of the year award.

Camilla Eves of Arbonne Canada is an actress who started her direct selling career 15 years ago to fill income gaps. It didn't take long for her to fall in love with direct selling and to help others to achieve their potential. In 2023, Camilla won our mark of distinction award for lifetime achievement.

These two stories hopefully provide a glimpse of how empowering our industry can be.

To assist women to overcome barriers and find empowerment via business, DSA Canada submits the following recommendations for this committee.

First, we ask that government continue to support independent contractor status. Our consultants are classified as independent contractors and have the freedom to commit varying levels of time and effort to their roles. It is important that government policy discussions related to the gig economy and the evolving reality of working Canadians carefully consider the impact any legislative or regulative changes could have on true independent opportunity.

Second, broadband Internet access is vital. Without universal access to high-speed communication technology, both direct selling businesses and other entrepreneurial opportunities for women are negatively impacted. This is turn impacts the general economic well-being of Canadian communities. Government must continue to invest in this tool that democratizes opportunity. We applaud existing efforts, but more dollars and determination are needed now to rapidly connect Canadians.

Third, federal regulation must not hinder the ability of entrepreneurs to operate successfully. As an example, Health Canada is currently proposing to institute significant fees on natural health products of the type sold by many of our members companies. Not only do these fees appear excessive, but they will likely lead to a reduction in products marketed in Canada, reducing choice for consumers and entrepreneurial opportunities for Canadian women.

As the government endeavours to empower women and create economic activity, they must consider the impact of fees and bureaucracy on opportunity and participation.

The direct selling industry plays an important but often unsung role in the growth of the Canadian economy and the success of women. We look forward to continuing to work with the federal government to ensure that this mutually beneficial relationship continues.

Thank you, and I welcome your questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you very much, Peter.

We're now going to start our first round of questioning, which is going to be for six minutes. We'll start off with Michelle Ferreri.

Michelle, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses today. It's great testimony to hear from you as we study economic empowerment of women in the status of women committee.

My first question goes to Ms. Hannen.

It is very thoughtful, constructive testimony you have on child care. You said some powerful words: that child care entrepreneurs are being targeted for extinction through the nationalization of Canada's child care sector. That's a pretty big statement, and we've seen in the news in the last few months some appalling headlines of what is happening because of the failed program.

My question to you to start is this: How has the Liberal child care program hurt women's economic empowerment?

[Andrea Hannen]

I would say a few things.

First of all, there are many licensed child care centres owned and operated by women. In the way the program was implemented.... It was done without a whole lot of consultation and doesn't take into account that there are all of these small businesses. Also—in Ontario, anyway—there's a hard cap on the expansion of child care centres that are independently owned as licensed businesses. Therefore, even if you want to expand, you may not be able to.

In terms of business start-ups, a lot of newer programs in Ontario are unable to join the national system, because you have to establish that you are financially viable. If it's a new program, how do you establish that it's financially viable?

There are so many barriers to participation for women. In the way the system has been rolled out, there's not really any opportunity for entrepreneurship. There aren't on-ramps and off-ramps to the program. It's all or nothing. It's very challenging.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you for that.

My second question is an expansion on what you just said.

How has the Liberal child care program prevented the empowerment of businesses owned or operated by women? I think it's hard for people to understand how this program would do that.

One of the things that have been said to me as the critic for this file is this: The program has set women further back because they don't have the choice to go to work. They can't go to work. I have women in my office who are expecting a child and they can't find child care, so they actually can't go to work.

Go ahead.

[Andrea Hannen]

There's a preference in Bill C-35. It was also expressed in the agreements that provinces signed prior to the passage of Bill C-35. All expansion should primarily be in the not-for-profit and public sectors. Right there, when you put a hard cap on the expansion of the sector, what you're doing is telling every supplier this sector relies on—financial institutions, insurance companies, landlords and equipment suppliers—that there's no growth potential for this group of clients. We shouldn't be surprised when we see independent child care centres finding every other aspect of their operation made more difficult.

We heard, back in November, previous witnesses at the committee saying how hard it is for enterprises owned by women to gain access to capital. Imagine what's happening now. If you're a female entrepreneur who needs access to capital to expand your business, the government doesn't want you to and may not let you participate in the program. Think about what the government's statements are. By expressing this very clear preference for a public sector system, they're saying these independent sectors don't have a future.

Also, the funding formula is a whole thing. That varies by province a bit, based on their agreements, but the funding formula is also an issue.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you for that.

If you have this data, can you share what the economic impact would be on Canada if we phased out these women entrepreneurs?

We saw yesterday, I think in the Financial Post, that Canada has one of the highest small business insolvencies in the world. It's increased by 34%. Small businesses in my community are literally dropping like flies. They can't sustain, and they're falling apart.

What does that look like for our country, GDP and economy when women-owned businesses...? This ties in with our other witness Mr. Maddox, who was talking about direct sellers. What does that look like?

Do either of you have that data, if you want to speak up? If you don't, could you put it forward to the committee?

[Andrea Hannen]

The one thing I will say is this: Here in Ontario, if we look at independent licensed child care programs and the portion of those run as businesses, most are small businesses that are independently owned and operated by women. Independent licensed child care programs make up between 25% and 30%. You could stand to lose 25% of your licensed child care spaces in the province of Ontario. That's a big deal. If you think it's hard to get child care now, imagine losing a quarter of the spaces.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

What do you say to the folks who say, “It has to work out the kinks. It's new and just rolling out, so that's why we're having all these problems”?

[Andrea Hannen]

If there is a plan to fix these kinks, we haven't seen it yet. There's no evidence that there are steps being taken to create that kind of plan.

I'd also say there are a lot of smart, dedicated people in Quebec who have invested decades of their lives into trying to deal with the access, staffing and quality challenges inherent in their program, and they haven't fixed it yet.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Perfect. Thank you so much.

We're now going to move over to Marc Serré.

Marc, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses for their testimonies. They will help expand the committee's knowledge.

My first question is for Ms. Miller, the mayor of the Township of Pelee.

In its studies, the committee focuses on the economic angle, for example. In the past, we've also conducted studies on women's participation in politics. In your opinion, how could the federal government encourage more women to enter politics? There's also a rural factor.

I also want to congratulate you on your election in 2022. A number of newspaper articles noted that many women left municipal politics in the last Ontario provincial election, in particular because of the toxic environment.

I would like to hear your recommendations for encouraging more women to enter politics.

[Catherine Miller]

Thank you.

I will broadly state that I was able to run to be mayor of this small municipality because I don't have children to care for at home on Pelee Island, and I don't have parents to care for. I'm able to dedicate my time to this.

You asked what the federal government can do to encourage more women to get into politics, whether it's rural politics or in larger cities. My response is largely anecdotal and just from what I see. I can tell you that extremely partisan or personal attacks that might start at the federal level and might happen in large politics trickle down to small politics. The things people see in headlines that are aggressive or toxic, or aren't about the issues, tend to trickle down and affect women in different ways. Those personal attacks that people see in the news and headlines among their federal members or their provincial members end up coming to the public for our small, municipal members.

We're not immune. The women in my municipality have dealt with some defamatory comments and bullying from the public, as have some of our staff, which is why we developed those policies. Broadly speaking, leadership by example is extremely important in this regard because it trickles down to women in rural municipalities.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Ms. Miller.

I'll now turn to Andrea Hannen from the Association of Day Care Operators of Ontario.

You spoke about major issues with the Quebec program. The federal government drew inspiration from this program. I would like to point out that Quebec has a high rate of women's participation in the workforce compared to the rest of Canada. Of course, some things could be improved. However, many people consider the Quebec program a success.

For the federal program, the participation rate is higher at over 2.4%. More and more women are entering the workforce, and the program was introduced only a few years ago. By 2027, the participation rate of women should be close to 86% or 87%. A number of factors should be considered.

I understand that the private sector must be taken into account. We heard earlier from representatives of the Canadian Women's Foundation and The Prosperity Project. They spoke about the quality of services and the proper salary for women and men who take care of children.

In your opinion, why should there be a purely private sector system instead of a public system? I'll give you a chance to explain, once again, the difference between the two. Let me point out that various data shows that we're on the right track.

[Andrea Hannen]

I think, first of all, we have to understand that the rollout of the program is quite different depending on what province you're in. Each province and territory for the most part had a well-established system of child care before the implementation of the Canada-wide early learning and child care program. Certainly, Quebec's system was developed in the culturally distinct province of Quebec. If it's working for Quebec, that's great. Fantastic. It doesn't necessarily mean that it's appropriate for every province and territory to follow the same model.

The other thing, too, is that I wasn't advocating for a purely private sector system of child care. What I was saying is that there has to be a level playing field for all child care. Whether it comes from the public sector, the independent licence sector, not-for-profits or small businesses, increasing access to regulated care is really key.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

You might want to make sure you bring those concerns to the Ford government, because they did sign the agreement with the federal government. I'm hoping you'll share those concerns with them too, please.

Thank you for your work.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thanks very much.

We're going to move it over to Andréanne Larouche.

You have six minutes.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'll start by thanking the witnesses for participating in this important study.

Regarding Mr. Serré's last question, the positive impact of a day care program is well established. I'm not the only one saying this. Economists in Quebec are also saying it. I'm thinking of Luc Godbout, from the Université de Sherbrooke, who proved that we needed this program to give women the chance to return to the workforce. I won't ask a question about this matter.

I'll continue along the same lines as Mr. Serré. In Quebec, the figures aren't very encouraging. Since 2021, 741 municipal officials have resigned.

Ms. Miller, you understand that we're conducting a study on women's economic empowerment. In my opinion, encouraging women to choose non‑traditional jobs, such as the still male‑dominated world of politics, is one way to empower women economically. Women must be able to pursue the jobs that they want to do. Right now, the situation is rather discouraging. Of course, these 741 elected officials aren't all women. I don't want to generalize. In my constituency, one of the male municipal officials told me that bullying contributed to his decision to resign as mayor. However, women have also cited bullying and harassment as reasons for resigning.

Ms. Miller, my colleague asked how we could lower the number of resignations. I would like to point you towards one possible solution, but you can suggest others. How can we combat hateful comments online?

In my opinion, as long as we fail to address this violence, we'll be helping to discourage women from entering politics. They won't want to expose themselves to this violence in politics.

I'm a woman in politics. I'm from the sandwich generation. I have a two‑year‑old daughter whom I don't want to expose to hateful comments. I'll also need to take care of aging parents. All this creates a mental load.

How does this contribute to a decline in women's participation in politics or their access to significant positions? We were talking earlier about the declining proportion of women in corporate management positions, for the same reasons.

[Catherine Miller]

What can we do to combat the bullying or the hate that we see in social media or online that is directed at elected officials, specifically women? I will tell you that in my term I have a councillor on our council who has indicated that they are surprised by the amount of exposure they've received. There's a councillor in a neighbouring community who was targeted for bullying because they wanted to review a certain bylaw and that raised questions around gun legislation.

Again, women in leadership I think is the first start because we support each other, but in terms of combatting the negativity on social media, all I can tell you is what we've done in our small community, which is to ignore it. It's very hard. It's not fair. As elected officials, we're bound to a code of conduct in terms of engaging with the public in this regard. As for defending ourselves or trying to set the record straight, it seems that maybe you bring on an onslaught. I'm sure some elected officials at the provincial and the federal level are dealing with this type of online negativity and violence and even defamatory comments from other members.

For us, I think there's a policy or there's a legislative mechanism that can be made. The public has a lot of resources to report on the bad actions of elected officials, certainly, but I feel that, as an elected official, I have very little recourse to deal with the bad actions of the public. I've had the public at my doorstep. I've had to....

We've instituted those anti-harassment policies for a reason, because the only way we could figure out how to deal with that was to attempt to legally acknowledge that people's behaviour isn't acceptable, but it does fail on social media. Your personal life and your family are exposed in a way that is absolutely unpleasant.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you for your comments.

You spoke of a walk in high heels in Essex. Last year, an event was held where male members of Parliament walked in heels. It was quite interesting. The goal was to show them what women can go through and to make people understand that women's economic empowerment isn't just about women, but men too. It's also about the place that they give to women in the workforce. There are women mentors, but there are men too. Both men and women must help ensure that there are more women in the workforce.