Status of Women Committee on Feb. 27th, 2024

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

That's great.

How does your organization work exactly? I was a bit surprised by what you said earlier. I should note that there are all kinds of rumours that it's more expensive to borrow money through women's organizations that fund women-owned businesses than it is to go through the bank, or in Quebec's case, the Caisse populaire.

We actually have an expert on the banking world on the committee, Ms. Roberts.

I believe you said earlier that you charge prime plus 4% on your loans. If someone in Quebec is looking to borrow money, would they be better off going to you or to a bank?

[Alison Kirkland]

I can't speak to what is actually happening in Quebec and what rates they are charging. The gap this fund fills is for those who will not be able to borrow from a traditional financial institution because they don't meet the security and credit score requirements.

It absolutely provides an opportunity to entrepreneurs who cannot be funded elsewhere, and I think that's the goal. When this fund was established, it was to provide to those who have great ideas and who have the capacity, but just cannot get funding because they are newcomers, for example, they don't have a history or any other myriad of things that affect women entrepreneurs.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Who exactly do you provide funding to, Ms. Kirkland? I may have misunderstood. If it meets the criteria, obviously, would you provide a loan to any business in Canada in need of financing, no matter where in the country it is?

[Alison Kirkland]

We look at every business plan, provided that it's legal. Yes, we do. There are a few criteria. If a business is making $2 million, we cannot finance it because, theoretically, it would have the revenue to invest in its own business.

Legal businesses we can certainly look at.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

All right. I understand.

You said that you don't require security on a loan. Do you charge a higher interest rate on unsecured loans, then?

[Alison Kirkland]

Our prime plus 4% is the rate for an unsecured loan for a start-up business.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Wonderful. Thank you so much.

We're going to move on to Sonia.

You have four minutes. Go ahead, please.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for being here.

Quickly, this is for Saadia.

You talked about credential recognition, which is extremely important. To clarify, the credential recognition process falls under provincial jurisdiction. The federal government launched a specialized fund through IRCC for both applicants and their organizations to facilitate this.

How can this funding be utilized to better reach the women you are talking about?

[Saadia Muzaffar]

Madam Chair, through you, I want to clarify that not all STEM jobs are regulated. The credential recognition isn't just with the regulatory bodies. It is employers believing that these women can do the job they are doing.

To also address something a member raised before, when immigrants apply here, they can't come to Canada without submitting extensive documentation about their qualifications. If they have landed here, I assure you that they have been through a lot of scrutiny to prove that they are qualified in the areas of their expertise.

To answer your question directly, some of the funding needs to go towards making sure that things like Canadian experience are not just illegal on paper but that immigrants are not asked for that. It doesn't make sense for somebody whose résumé says they landed here three weeks ago to be asked for Canadian experience, because you're stuck in a catch-22 in that you are told to go work at a Starbucks to get Canadian experience.

When you are a doctor, a researcher or an engineer, that doesn't add up.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Thank you.

It's over to you.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Thank you so much.

I'd like to pick up on the question that Ms. Lambropoulos asked earlier about pay equity. I was also quite struck when you said that immigrant women in STEM are making 55¢ on the dollar compared to men.

We passed legislation in the 42nd Parliament here on pay equity in the federally regulated sector. I imagine that in STEM some of those would fall in that sector. The provinces have that as well, and they have reporting requirements for employers who pay men and women differently. That doesn't delve down into the intersectionality, but is that something that can be utilized to make sure that you don't see women who are doing similar skill-level work being paid less?

[Saadia Muzaffar]

The challenge is that not all employers are under the federal mandate. That is a really good precedent, but a precedent needs to move faster to impact other places.

The other thing that's important to remember is that there are lots of loopholes on paper, again, to pay women less. If our labour is undervalued across the board, even if you're a senior manager, you might find out that the people you're managing are getting paid more than you. That is quite common, not just in STEM but particularly in STEM.

I think the investments we're seeing now are long overdue. I'm very glad for them, but the structural conversations we need to have need to go beyond what I understand is the mandate of the federal government and the people who procure for them.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Thank you.

I want to quickly ask this of Ms. Choo, because I know you've had some funding through the women's entrepreneurship strategy on coaching and mentoring. To what extent has that been successful?

[Queenie Choo]

I mentioned the statistics earlier on. The program for the women's entrepreneurship project was established in 2018. The program supported over 798 women entrepreneurs, connected 338 clients to mentorship opportunities, provided one-on-one coaching to over 760 individuals and engaged over 770 participants in the program through workshops and skills training.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you so much.

We're now moving on to our two-minute rounds.

Andréanne, you have two minutes.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you again to the witnesses for being with us. The discussion with our second panel is highly informative.

Ms. Muzaffar, you said in your opening statement that we were leaving hundreds of millions of dollars on the table by not utilizing women's skills. What did you mean?

Take this opportunity to talk more about that and, if you would, to provide some recommendations on how we can do better.

[Saadia Muzaffar]

Madam Chair, through you, we need to let these women do the work they're qualified to do and pay them equitably. That part is not complicated. We need to be clear that this is what we are going for.

We are not looking for women to just survive. We don't want immigrant women to say that they are just doing this for their children and that the fact that they were doctors or engineers in their home country means nothing. I don't think that's a good deal for Canada. I think that we need to invest in making sure they have the jobs they need, and the barriers are really well known. The way we are structured is that we have immigration, employment and women's support in silos, and that needs to change.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Yes.

Ms. Choo, you talked a lot about immigrant women's issues. With the first panel, we talked about networking, mentorship and the importance of role models to inspire women in business. What does all that mean in the case of women immigrants?

You have 30 seconds to answer.

[Queenie Choo]

Thank you very much for the question.

Certainly the mentorship and networking opportunities provide that emotional and collegial support for immigrant women.

There's another area I actually want to talk about. I think there is also a need to have the support for occupational-specific language training for those immigrant women, so they can be expedited into the workplace or into the area they would like to take on as their professional career.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

For our last round of questions, we have Leah.

Leah, you have two minutes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much, Chair.

My last question is for Ms. Choo.

You indicated that 70% of your clients are women. You also indicated that there is a huge demand for language training. As a former educator in college and university, I know that even to enter those programs you have to have level 7 English.

How is the lack of spaces for language programming a barrier for women to enter the job market, wherever it is?

[Queenie Choo]

Absolutely. Thank you for the question.

Certainly, for the language, training to better prepare immigrant women to succeed in their careers or on their Canadian journey is vitally important. I would call for the resources that are required, every step of the way, for settlement agencies like S.U.C.C.E.S.S to help those individuals with the language they require, whether it is the expectation of a minimum language level or occupation-specific language training, which they need to pursue their careers.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you very much.

In terms of training, how do you think the federal government could better support language training to meet the needs of the community you're servicing?

[Queenie Choo]

Thank you, again, for the question.

Language is one of the ways they communicate with people to understand the culture of the country that they now call home. It is important to make sure that language training and the investments in those individuals who require language learning, particularly in English and French, will enable them to become skilful in that. The sky is the limit for them as soon as they have those language opportunities in their field.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Awesome. We have come to the end.

I would really like to thank Alison, Queenie and Saadie. Thank you so much for this incredible testimony today.

I am going to remind you that on Thursday we will have two panels. However, at the end of our second panel we'll be taking 15 minutes to do drafting instructions to finish up this economic study so that Clare and Alexia can get started writing this.

Seeing no questions, are we ready to adjourn?