Status of Women Committee on Feb. 27th, 2024

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you very much.

We're now going to move over to Saadia Muzaffar.

You have the floor for five minutes.

[Saadia Muzaffar, President, TechGirls Canada]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

As you said, my name is Saadia Muzaffar, and I'm the founder and president of TechGirls Canada, or TGC, which is a national not-for-profit that's in its 11th year of advancing a STEM economy where women thrive.

We conduct research and capacity-building pilots to identify better ways to not only increase women's participation in STEM-led innovation sectors but also focus on how they fare in terms of promotion and pay equity once they get their first jobs in the areas of their training and expertise.

I have had the privilege of representing Canada's commitment to supporting women's participation in STEM at the United Nations, at APEC and with Global Affairs Canada. I'm deeply grateful for this opportunity to share some of the insights from this work with this distinguished committee whose mandate is very close to my heart.

My statement today focuses on the work that TGC has been doing for the last seven years, which is the economic empowerment of Canada's immigrant women in STEM. Most Canadians are surprised to learn that immigrant women are the majority of Canada's women in the STEM workforce, at 52% and counting. As of 2021, Canada is home to 426,350 working-age immigrant women in STEM. Those numbers are increasing year over year with our immigration system's focus on attracting the best STEM talent from around the globe.

Considering this, many are then surprised to learn that, on average, immigrant women in STEM earn 55¢ to every dollar that non-immigrant men with the same qualifications earn. Despite representing the majority of women, they also encounter the worst outcomes across the board in unemployment, underemployment and job match.

Finally, and perhaps most surprisingly, immigrant women report challenges finding work in STEM sectors that have had long-standing labour shortages, such as in digital technology, clean tech, cybersecurity, health care, advanced manufacturing and technical trades. This disconnect between immigrant women who are well qualified to contribute their expertise and the industries that need it for growth and innovation creates a situation that makes little business sense. We are leaving hundreds of millions of dollars on the table by not utilizing their skills in service of Canada's global competitiveness.

TGC's research and partnerships in all 13 provinces and territories show that there is a need for support in four particular areas.

Number one is in developing specialized employment training programs that bridge newcomer women in STEM to their respective fields in Canada.

Number two is to develop partnerships for employer engagement so that these programs address industry-specific demands and skills, which will result in the right jobs and better pay for this critical talent pool.

Number three is to create sector-specific job match tools and programs so immigrant women in STEM are not asked to delete their master's and Ph.D.s off their résumés and pushed outside of STEM into survival jobs in retail, hospitality, personal support work and customer service.

Number four, and most importantly, TGC and our partner organizations are keen to implement evidence-based support programs for employment retention and career mobility that not only focus on getting them good-paying jobs but continue further to address workplace integration issues.

We believe that improving economic equity for immigrant women in STEM will improve economic outcomes for all women in STEM.

Thank you for your time, Madam Chair and committee members. I look forward to your questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you very much.

We're now going to go online to Alison Kirkland, who is from the Women's Enterprise Organizations of Canada.

You have five minutes, Alison.

[Alison Kirkland, Chief Executive Officer, Women's Enterprise Organizations of Canada]

Thank you very much for the opportunity to speak with you today. It's a pleasure to be here.

The Women's Enterprise Organizations of Canada is an association of resource centres across the country that support women entrepreneurs. Our diverse membership directly impacts their growth and success by providing them with business supports including advising, training, mentorship and networking.

I'm going to start calling it WEOC, because Women's Enterprise Organizations of Canada is quite the mouthful. Throughout the year, WEOC offers a variety of resources, professional development supports and events that are specifically designed for those who advise, guide, mentor and counsel women and non-binary entrepreneurs. Our goal is to ensure that the advisers have the knowledge and experience to support the entrepreneurs in the best possible way.

As you all know, access to capital remains a significant barrier for many women entrepreneurs seeking to start or grow their businesses. I began working in the women's enterprise ecosystem in 2002. At that time, women entrepreneurs faced significant barriers when attempting to access capital for their businesses. I'm sad to say that over the past 20 years, that situation has not changed dramatically.

In 2021-22, we conducted a two-year study on women entrepreneurs' access to capital. This research was an opportunity to speak directly to women entrepreneurs and learn about their experiences accessing or attempting to access business capital. In total we connected with 1,024 women from across the country, who responded to our survey and participated in focus groups and one-on-one interviews. We published the findings in the report called “Bootstrap or Borrow?”. The resulting data identified systemic barriers that prevent women entrepreneurs from accessing growth capital.

During the research we had some powerful messages from the women we spoke to. Many of the respondents have mental models of Canada's funders that render them pessimistic about the chances of successful funding outcomes. Of the respondents, 40% believed that, “they won't lend to [someone] like me”. Racialized and indigenous entrepreneurs are at least three times more likely than their non-intersectional counterparts to feel that banks would be biased or would discriminate in their dealings with them.

For many women, the default option is either personal savings or credit cards. These were the only sources of funding used by 50% of the survey respondents. The decision to use credit cards or deplete personal savings can have long-term effects that may not be fully appreciated at the time that they are used to support a start-up or growth.

In the long term, our goal for funders is to examine the ways and the processes that they use that may negatively impact women entrepreneurs, who often have a value-based approach to business that doesn't necessarily align with a key funding ecosystem that is not considered to be responsive to their needs, lacks products for women who do not meet the customary criteria for creditworthiness and at times is biased against them.

Perhaps, serendipitously, as we were finishing the 2022 research, we learned that WEOC was selected to deliver a portion of the new national microloan fund, which is part of the women entrepreneurship strategy. The loan fund is for women as they start, scale, grow and maintain their businesses.

What we learned during the research has been foundational in the processes and procedures that we have implemented in the management of the women entrepreneurship loan fund that we administer.

We had our first loans out in November 2022, and this fund is a game-changer for women entrepreneurs, many of whom are unable to access financing from other sources. We work with loan partners across the country, who prepare the women entrepreneurs to apply for the loan, helping them to prepare a business plan and financial projections to work through the processes and apply for the loan. Our goal is to reduce the barriers that prevent them from borrowing, such as credit scores and security.

As you know, injections of capital have—

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

We're at our five minutes. When we come to questions and answers we'll be sure to get to you.

[Alison Kirkland]

Great. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

We're going to start our first six-minute round. We're going to start off with Michelle Ferreri.

Michelle, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here as we study economic empowerment in the status of women.

I would start with Alison, if I could.

When we look at entrepreneurs—and I know you and I chatted a little bit about this, but I wasn't sure if there was more you had learned—a lot of the entrepreneurs in child care we know are women. They operate child care centres in order to step up and help themselves. Maybe they want to stay home with their kids and offer that service to a lot of other women and families in their community, but they certainly feel targeted right now. We've heard a lot of testimony even today. There's a lot of work to be done in ensuring we have more access to equitable child care, especially for lower-income families and single moms and disabled moms.

How has it impacted the women you work with and women entrepreneurs?

[Alison Kirkland]

Is it the access to capital—I'm sorry—or the child care? I'm just confirming the question.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

It's access to child care. Child care being a key issue, obviously.

[Alison Kirkland]

Yes, absolutely.

It is an interesting aspect for women entrepreneurs because they are often sole proprietors and they need that access. We all know that COVID prevented them from running their businesses as they normally would because they had to take on the lion's share of family management, and women continue to do that. Accessing child care is vital.

I was here for the last part of the previous witnesses and noted that it's not just nine to five. It has to be much more flexible for them. So many times we hear of women entrepreneurs who actually start their business day once the children go to bed, because then they can dedicate time to that. Child care is very important.

It's also an area where women entrepreneurs start businesses. Having the capital available to them to do that successfully and manage those opportunities appropriately is vital.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

You touched on a really critical point, because a lot of the operators I'm speaking with are dipping into their credit cards, much like what you've said with most entrepreneurs. I was in that boat my own self once upon a time. It is very hard, especially when you're single, for a bank to give you a penny, so you rely on your own debt or you find somebody else.

This certainly wasn't my case, but I know in some instances the financial autonomy is taken from women in relationships. They have no credit score. They have nothing if they leave a situation or an abusive situation.

What are you offering for women to have access to that capital, to be a bridge with financial institutions or to ensure they are a good credit score, so to speak, and that they are good for it?

[Alison Kirkland]

Credit scores have long been used as a barometer of the creditworthiness of an entrepreneur, but so often the credit score is the result of an incident. It could be a breakdown in a relationship or a period of poor health or something like that. While we look at the credit score, it's not the final arbiter of a lending decision for us. Our decision is around what is affecting the credit score, why it is low and what they are doing to repair it. We don't use the credit score as the number one barrier. It's not something we use to cull the list, so to speak.

We also do loans without security. Like with credit scores, women often don't have the security to put behind a business loan. They may be in a business that's service-based, so they don't have equipment or a building they can use as security.

Those are two key things we're doing differently in how we're looking at lending to women.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you for that.

I have two questions as a follow-up to that, being mindful of my time here.

What interest rates are you charging, and how can we incentivize banks and financial institutions to take the same approach or to have a branch within their financial institution to offer what you're offering? I still think it's very challenging for many women to know you even exist or that the service is offered. A lot of the problem is the administrative burden or navigating the system—

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

I'm sorry. There is a problem right now.

We got it muted. We should be okay now.

Could you go back to the beginning of your question, please?

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Yes. Thank you.

Thank you, again, Alison.

There are two questions I have, being mindful of the time.

What is the interest rate you are charging for these loans and access to capital?

Even further than that, one of the challenges—and we've talked about this—is that many women don't even know you exist yet. That is often a big thing. There are these services available, but navigating the system is often the hugest issue.

Are you working with financial institutions so that they'll offer your services or be a partner so that more women who are walking through the doors of financial institutions know you even exist or that this is something they can access?

[Alison Kirkland]

Yes. We are absolutely working to create awareness of this program, and we are working with financial institutions to have them share with clients they can't support that we exist.

We've been in the market for just over a year. We're getting the traction—we need more traction—but we're reaching out to entrepreneurs. It's super important that they realize that other options exist and that there is a response to their needs.

We currently charge prime up to 4% for an unsecured start-up, because we are funded and we are trying to become self-sustaining. At the same—

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

I'm sorry. Is that prime plus 4%?

[Alison Kirkland]

It's up to. That's the maximum, depending on the loan type, but we're very flexible. We look at the entrepreneur. If they need interest-only payments for a portion of the time or if they have a challenging month, we look at making some adjustments on that front. We're really trying to—

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you very much. I have to cut you off, but I'm sure I'll come back to you with some more requests.

I'm now going to pass the floor over to Emmanuella.

You have six minutes.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

My first question will go to Queenie.

Queenie, you spoke about something that really resonates with me a lot. It's something that I'm very passionate about, so I want to thank you for being here and sharing your testimony today.

You spoke about the fact that women face discrimination—a lot more often than men, of course—and that they're faced, regularly, with microaggressions, such as being asked about their emotional state or being assumed to hold a less serious position than they do. This is definitely something I've experienced, and I'm sure many women around the table have also experienced it.

I'm sure you've worked with many women who have had these experiences. I'm asking if you can tell us, or share with us, what effect they have had on the women you've worked with in the workforce.

[Queenie Choo]

Thank you very much for the question. I can definitely speak from my own personal experience of being a racialized minority woman.

They definitely have a lot of impact on the individual's emotional self-esteem and mental health state, especially when they are spoken to versus being in a collegial relationship in a workplace.

Yes, they significantly impact the emotional and mental health of the individual.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you.

Of course, their self-esteem may impede them from seeking a promotion or from doing as well as they can in the workforce, I imagine.

[Queenie Choo]

Absolutely. Thank you for that comment, because if people have low self-esteem, certainly their motives or enthusiasm to go further will be repressed. Their opportunities to look for a promotion or even their career development will definitely be repressed.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you.

You suggested a call for a safe and financially stable work environment for these women, free of discrimination. You mentioned that we need to take steps. I'm wondering if you can share some specific steps that you would recommend to help us get there.