Transport Committee on Nov. 9th, 2006

[James Cherry]

I appreciate the question, but I'm really not in a position to answer it. I'm not a security expert. I would have to defer to Mr. Duchesneau, who is far more competent in that area. I don't know if he's comfortable answering it, but I couldn't answer that question.

[Jacques Duchesneau]

I was going to refer the answer to Mr. ...

No, really, Mr. Chair, it is up to cabinet to make that decision as to whether we get the mandate or not. Obviously we're not blind; we know it could be an issue, and we're working closely. Mr. Forster, the ADM, was here two days ago and mentioned that he was given $26 million to look at this. We assured the minister and the deputy minister that we would help them find a solution to it, but we're too early on. I'm really not an expert in cargo security.

[James Cherry]

I can add one very minor thing, Mr. McGuinty. I think, in fairness to the people at Transport Canada and other places, it's a very complex issue, and the airlines agree and acknowledge that it is. If it were an easy issue, it would have been applied a long time ago. In an area, especially in the United States, where the threat, I think, is much higher than it is here today, they're struggling with the same question. It's not an easy question, and I'd leave it up to greater minds than ours to sort it out. If it were easy, it would have been done a long time ago.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Don Bell]

Mr. Carrier.

[Robert Carrier, Bloc, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

I have a question about responsibility. I asked this earlier, but did not really get an answer.

In the public explanations we obtained, it seemed to be Transport Canada that conducted the investigation and identified deficiencies in the system that were then corrected. Yet, when you spoke earlier, you talked about all the measures you have implemented to enhance security.

I don't know whether I have missed something, but did ADM take a position and publicly respond to the situation? It seems to me it would be more reassuring to know that ADM took the necessary measures, rather than Transport Canada being forced to investigate and forcing you to take corrective measures.

[James Cherry]

That is a very good question. We have not received the results of the investigation. Transport Canada is responsible for conducting an investigation and making the final report public, or at least delivering it to us.

We realized that we could take certain measures to improve things. So we began to enhance security before Transport Canada initiated its investigation. In fact, we held a press conference several months ago, at the end of September, to announce that we had added measures and made improvements.

But please understand that we cannot provide the details. We issued a press release and held a press conference jointly with CATSA on September 27 or 28. That has already been done. I agree that journalists responded in a somewhat sensationalist way at the time. They said they had received no explanation. I apologize, but I believe that details and explanations are not necessary. As you said yourself, it is more important that we reassure the public by saying we have taken measures to improve the system in response to the incidents.

[Robert Carrier, Bloc, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

You said that Transport Canada did not forward its recommendations regarding the deficiencies they had identified.

[James Cherry]

We have not received anything.

[Robert Carrier, Bloc, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

I'm surprised to learn that you have not received the report, that Transport Canada, which has final responsibility, has not provided you with their report to help you identify the deficiencies that you have no doubt already corrected, as you said.

[James Cherry]

We received nothing officially from Transport Canada. But as I said, we had identified some deficiencies ourselves and taken measures to improve the system even before Transport Canada officials began their assessment, or investigation.

[Robert Carrier, Bloc, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

I'm disappointed, because Transport Canada is the public guarantee. It is the government department that takes final responsibility.

[Normand Boivin]

We should make clear that Transport Canada is aware of the measures we have taken since the article appeared in the paper. Even though they have not yet provided us with their official report, that does not mean there have been no discussions on what needs to be done; that does not mean they are unaware of what has happened, or dissatisfied with the measures we have taken. There's a difference between the paperwork that comes in the wake of such an incident, and the real action that is taken every day.

[Robert Carrier, Bloc, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

In the recommendations you will receive from Transport Canada, is there any possibility of broadening CATSA's mandate? Currently, CATSA has six specific mandates. Mr. Duchesneau already mentioned that if CATSA had an additional mandate, it would be ready to take it on. Have you already discussed the idea of giving CATSA some extra responsibility for security control?

[James Cherry]

Not in my presence.

[Normand Boivin]

The subject was not raised, except for the issue of freight, which has not been settled yet. The debate was about knowing who would screen the freight with the proper equipment. This discussion is currently going on. There is no other discussion about such possibilities, Mr. Duchesneau, unless I am mistaken. I have not heard of any additional things to speak of—

[Robert Carrier, Bloc, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

What is Transport Canada's recommendation?

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Don Bell]

Okay, that's your time, Mr. Carrier.

There was nothing more from this side? We've reached the time of 5:20, but—

Thirty seconds?

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Perhaps I could go back to cargo. Again, for me, it comes as a complete surprise that cargo doesn't come under CATSA. It comes under no other regulatory authority or government agency. We've left it up to the airlines essentially to police themselves. And yes, I agree with Mr. Boivin that the airlines have a vested interest in making sure their cargo is secure and safe.

[James Cherry]

Transport would inspect them as well.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Transport Canada inspects the airlines or the cargo?

[James Cherry]

My understanding is they carry out inspections to make sure the airlines have the procedures in place to monitor the security of the cargo.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Is there an international standard for how cargo is screened?

[Normand Boivin]

Not that I know of.

Transport Canada has a regulation regarding transport or carrier security measures; there are some articles in there on cargo that need to be applied by the carriers. The carriers need to abide by those measures, and Transport inspects those measures.

So it's not to say there is nothing being done about cargo, but cargo is not being screened with X-ray equipment right now. That is not to say there is absolutely no security on cargo right now, as the airlines have to abide by the Transport Canada security measures.

Could they be improved? Yes.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Don Bell]

That's going to be the time.

Gentlemen, I'd like to thank all of you for appearing . I appreciate your being here and answering the questions today. Thank you.

Committee, we'll take a one- or two-minute break and then we'll resume and deal with the issue of main estimates. I don't think it will take very long for us to deal with them.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Don Bell]

Okay, we resume the meeting with respect to item two, committee business, main estimates.

Before we potentially have a series of votes, if there is agreement there are no changes to be made, we can deal with the estimates and have them adopted in full.

We will now proceed to the votes.

TRANSPORT

Transport Department

Vote 1--Operating expenditures..........$234,692,000

Vote 5--Capital expenditures..........$76,455,000

Vote 10--Grants and contributions..........$296,228,000

Vote 15--Payments to the Jacques Cartier and Champlain Bridges Inc...........$30,488,000

Vote 20--Payments to Marine Atlantic Inc...........$80,980,000

Vote 25--Payments to VIA Rail Canada Inc...........$169,001,000

Vote 30--Payments to the Canadian Air Transport Security Authority..........$381,366,000

Canada Post Corporation

Vote 35--Payments to the Canada Post Corporation for special purposes..........$147,210,000

Canadian Transportation Agency

Vote 40--Program expenditures..........$23,173,000

National Capital Commission

Vote 45--Payment to the National Capital Commission for operating expenditures..........$74,657,000

Vote 50--Payment to the National Capital Commission for capital expenditures..........$16,713,000

Office of Infrastructure of Canada

Vote 55--Operating expenditures..........$37,103,000

Vote 60--Contributions..........$1,787,169,000

Vote 65--Operating funding for the Old Port of Montreal Corporation Inc...........$18,800,000

Vote L70--Investment in contributed surplus of Parc Downsview Park Inc. for the purpose of allowing the completion of the transfer of lands from National Defence to Parc Downsview Park Inc...........$2,492,000

Vote L75--To establish a borrowing authority of up to $100,000,000 for Parc Downsview Park Inc................

Transportation Appeal Tribunal of Canada

Vote 80--Program expenditures..........$1,200,000

What is the pleasure of the committee?