Evidence of meeting #25 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was airport.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Jacques Duchesneau  President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Air Transport Security Authority
James Cherry  President and Chief Executive Officer, Aéroports de Montréal (Dorval and Mirabel)
Kevin McGarr  Vice-President and Chief Technology Officer, Canadian Air Transport Security Authority
Mark Duncan  Executive Vice-President and Chief Operating Officer, Canadian Air Transport Security Authority
Normand Boivin  Vice-President, Operating, Aéroports de Montréal (Dorval and Mirabel)

4:20 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Aéroports de Montréal (Dorval and Mirabel)

James Cherry

Well, let me answer it two ways. Let me say that, first of all, it's been suggested by some that the airlines don't take that seriously. I can assure you—and it's rare that I'm taking the side of the airlines—they take it very seriously. Their assets, their reputation, and their employees are at risk if they don't take it seriously. They take it very seriously. They look at security from a very serious point of view.

Could it be improved? I'm of the view that no system is perfect, and it can always be improved. Should we be doing more to perhaps alleviate some of that burden from the airlines and provide some more support in terms of cargo surveillance? It's something that a lot of people are looking at, and not only in this country, by the way. When we talk at airport conferences around the world, we find it's a preoccupation of our organizations and the airlines. Organizations that are like Transport Canada in other parts of the world see this as an issue and something that they have to deal with.

But I can tell you now that it's not going to be easy to do, and it's going to be quite expensive to do, as well. So I think when we do it—and I'm not suggesting that's a reason not to do it, but I'm saying when we do it—let's make sure we do it properly. It could always be improved. Security is something that has to evolve.

I like the phrase that Mr. Duchesneau uses about evolving, because the threat evolves constantly. Take the gels and liquids threat of August 10. Sure, we were aware that explosives could be created with gels and liquids before, but was it an imminent threat? Not up until that point. At that point, the threat evolved, and we took measures to counteract that threat. I think that's the environment we're in. It's dynamic, and it has to be that way.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

Do passenger airlines ever carry non-passenger cargo?

4:20 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Aéroports de Montréal (Dorval and Mirabel)

James Cherry

Yes, indeed.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

Do they mix?

4:20 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Aéroports de Montréal (Dorval and Mirabel)

James Cherry

Yes, indeed. In the numbers for Dorval airport, for Trudeau airport, there's about 150,000 tonnes of cargo carried every year in the belly of passenger airplanes, so about half our overall cargo volume is carried in the belly of passenger airplanes.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

So the security of that plane rests with the airlines, not with CATSA?

4:25 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Aéroports de Montréal (Dorval and Mirabel)

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

Really?

4:25 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Aéroports de Montréal (Dorval and Mirabel)

James Cherry

For the cargo portion, absolutely, yes, it does.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

That's shocking. I'm very surprised.

4:25 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Aéroports de Montréal (Dorval and Mirabel)

James Cherry

That is the way their mandate has been laid down by Transport Canada, by the Government of Canada, and it is exactly the same situation as you would find in the United States—

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

I understand.

4:25 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Aéroports de Montréal (Dorval and Mirabel)

James Cherry

—and everywhere else in the world. That's the way it's done today, unless you can tell me differently.

4:25 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Air Transport Security Authority

4:25 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Aéroports de Montréal (Dorval and Mirabel)

James Cherry

But that's my understanding of the way it's done everywhere.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

So if I were a terrorist and I was trying to find a more convenient way of getting access to a passenger plane, and I felt there was an airline that had weaker security in terms of its cargo, I would be tempted to focus in on that, would I not? There's no national standard and no international standard for that?

4:25 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Aéroports de Montréal (Dorval and Mirabel)

James Cherry

I couldn't speculate on that, and I don't know that my colleague Mr. Duchesneau could either.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Don Bell

We'll have to come back the next round. That's been more than nine minutes.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

Thank you.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Don Bell

Mr. Owen, I understand you're delegating your time to Mr. McGuinty.

November 9th, 2006 / 4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Stephen Owen Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC

I'll just ask one question before I do that, if I may.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Don Bell

All right, then. You're sharing your time, then. Go ahead.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Stephen Owen Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC

I'm sharing. Thank you.

Mr. Cherry, in particular, you mentioned in your notes that the Montreal airport system is the only Canadian agency with accreditation by CALEA, which is similar to getting the ISO qualification. I'm delighted to hear that, but a little surprised to hear that other Canadian major airports aren't either required, expected, or self-motivated to seek that kind of accreditation.

4:25 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Aéroports de Montréal (Dorval and Mirabel)

James Cherry

They're not required or expected to. This is a motivation we had ourselves; we went out and sought this. There are a lot of airports in the U.S. that have that certification. It is a U.S.-based organization. Back in 2001-02 we started the steps to try to make our systems more rigorous, and just as for an ISO certification, we went into the process of documenting our processes and plans in order to retain that certification. I can also say that we've gone back every two years to be recertified, and we have been certified again.

We thought it was a very good process, a very thorough one that went into all levels of the security aspect of the airport, including and especially the preparation of standards, the preparation of emergency plans, the training of our people, and a whole myriad of other things.

But it was at our initiative; it was not a requirement.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Stephen Owen Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC

Thank you. That might be something our committee may want to recommend for broader application.

Let me just say, by way of observation to all of you gentlemen on the important work you're doing and the success you've made, that risk assessment is, as you've mentioned, really a factor of two things--the likelihood of an occurrence and the consequence of an occurrence. Even when we're dealing with almost infinitesimal percentages of likelihood, the consequences are catastrophic. So your work is immensely important.

Thank you for what you do.