Evidence of meeting #28 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was agency.
A recording is available from Parliament.
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Director General, Surface Transportation Policy, Department of Transport
And at the same time . . .
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Bloc
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Director General, Surface Transportation Policy, Department of Transport
That's correct.
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Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
And, in the case of an air transportation undertaking, that person gives notice to the agency. I see. Therefore, the notice must contain the information required under the Competition Act.
The proposed subsection 53.1(2) further notes:
[...] The notice shall also contain any information with respect to the public interest as it relates to national transportation that is required under any guidelines [...]
That implies that the minister has already issued guidelines.
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Director General, Surface Transportation Policy, Department of Transport
He will be issuing guidelines.
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Bloc
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Director General, Surface Transportation Policy, Department of Transport
Not yet.
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Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
Not yet.
When the minister issues guidelines, are these made public?
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Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
That's always been my understanding. Anyone can obtain these guidelines, otherwise notice cannot be given.
4 p.m.
Director General, Surface Transportation Policy, Department of Transport
That's correct. We want applicants to know what information the minister requires. It is our intention to make these guidelines public.
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Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
Fine then.
You'll do what Mr. McGuinty asks, that is make these guidelines public and stipulate certain requirements. Is that correct?
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Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
Consequently, this amendment doesn't change anything. It may specify certain criteria. Nevertheless, in my view, the guidelines must be made public. Those giving notice must be familiar with the guidelines. So then, this amendment doesn't change procedure.
4 p.m.
Director General, Surface Transportation Policy, Department of Transport
The difference is that here, we're talking about guidelines, while in his motion, Mr. McGuinty talks about criteria. There is a big difference between “criteria” and “guidelines”. We don't have a problem with using “shall” or “may”, but it's not the same in the case of “criteria” versus “guidelines”.
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Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
The proposed amendment reads as follows:
(2.1) The guidelines referred to in subsection (2) shall be made public and shall specify the criteria [...]
Surely, however, the guidelines will specify something.
4 p.m.
Director General, Surface Transportation Policy, Department of Transport
Yes, they will indicate to the applicant which information is required by the minister.
As far as criteria are concerned, we use them when it comes to the factors that the minister must take into account when making his decision. Criteria are not made public. They vary depending on the situation and the case before the minister for his consideration.
However, the guidelines will outline all of the information that the minister may require.
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Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
You say the minister has his own criteria, or factors.
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Director General, Surface Transportation Policy, Department of Transport
That's correct.
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Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
Quite often, you're the minister. Transport Canada is the one who...
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Director General, Surface Transportation Policy, Department of Transport
Yes, us or another person. It could be the agency.
However, we want the information to be made public.
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Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
Why are the criteria not made public? Could it be that on occasion, some information is privileged?
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Director General, Surface Transportation Policy, Department of Transport
No, other factors come into play. It all depends on the situation. An airline merger is not the same as a railway merger. Totally different factors come into play. Different factors must be considered for a freight carrier, as opposed to a passenger airline. All of these factors cannot be made public. However, we want applicants to know what information . . .