Evidence of meeting #28 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was agency.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4 p.m.
Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
Therefore, you wouldn't have a problem if subsection 3.1(2.1) said: “Guidelines shall be made public.” You would be fine with this, if the amendment stopped there?
4 p.m.
Director General, Surface Transportation Policy, Department of Transport
Yes, we would.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
Mr. Chair, I have a question and maybe a couple of comments, and the question would be through you to Mr. McGuinty.
I'm trying to understand his concern. He's essentially introducing the whole aspect of specific criteria to be considered by the minister. Is it his concern that there might be conflict between the criteria or the considerations that the minister undertakes and those of the Commissioner of Competition? Is that the issue?
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
All right.
You know, when you read the rest of this particular clause, it goes on to provide for extensive consultation and dovetailing of the jurisdictions of the commissioner and the minister. So I'm not sure it's a concern that is necessarily valid. I don't want to waste the committee's time by reading through 53.1, 53.2, and all the way through to 53.5 and 53.6, etc. If you read them carefully, there's significant dovetailing of those functions between the minister and the commissioner.
Secondly, my concern, Mr. Chair, is that when we move from general legislation towards guidelines, and then, further, to criteria, despite what some might think, we're actually limiting the scope of the legislation. We actually tie government's hands to make decisions in the best interests of Canadians.
I spent years drafting legal documents. I know the dangers of becoming too specific, especially when it's legislation, not just contractual. Down the road, you'll find yourself in a situation where these criteria are actually used to argue against the public interest by those wishing to undertake mergers and acquisitions. I caution this committee about going down this road. It's dangerous, and we may live to regret it.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
I would respond on a couple of fronts.
Monsieur Langlois, is there another minister in the Government of Canada who possesses the power to review mergers and acquisitions?
4:05 p.m.
Director General, Surface Transportation Policy, Department of Transport
There is one for banks, and the Minister of Transport, for air transportation.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
Okay. So to our knowledge, the precedent is the banking sector at Finance Canada.
I'm sorry, it would help me to understand.
4:05 p.m.
Director General, Surface Transportation Policy, Department of Transport
Well, in Transport, in air issues.
4:05 p.m.
A voice
It actually expands into other modes of transportation as well.
4:05 p.m.
Legal Counsel, Legal Services, Department of Transport
These provisions are already in existence in the CTA for air mergers. The minister does have that power right now for air mergers and acquisitions.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
And those powers were invested in the minister around the time of the acquisition by Air Canada of Canadian Pacific Airlines. Is that right?
4:05 p.m.
Legal Counsel, Legal Services, Department of Transport
Yes, that's correct.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
So they were brought in specifically for the purpose of actually overseeing and empowering the minister to deal with that particular acquisition, right?
4:05 p.m.
Director General, Surface Transportation Policy, Department of Transport
Well, yes, but it applies generally to the air mode. Any carrier that fits under the thresholds would be considered
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
So now, if I understand this provision, if the Ottawa Central Railway, which runs through my riding--from here to Renfrew or Pembroke, 97 kilometres of track and back, every day, six times a day--were, for example, to be subject to sale, or if it wanted to acquire a smaller railway beside it, it would have to seek and achieve an approval from the Minister of Transport?
4:10 p.m.
Director General, Surface Transportation Policy, Department of Transport
Not necessarily. The same thresholds that apply under the Competition Act will apply under this. A transaction under the Competition Act is notifiable above $400 million worth of assets. Basically, this notification applies to the same level. Ottawa Central is a small entity. It wouldn't fit under that threshold.
Secondly, it only applies to federal undertakings. They have to be under federal jurisdiction. That limits quite a bit of the population; there aren't that many carriers under federal jurisdiction.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed
I think Mr. Jean might be able to answer some more of your question.
