Evidence of meeting #37 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sms.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
Thank you.
Referring to directive 39, Mr. Holbrook, you said the inspectors are asked to refer any event or incident to companies that have an SMS or that are in the process of setting one up?
National Chair, Canadian Federal Pilots Association
Those are the words in Transport Canada's document--
National Chair, Canadian Federal Pilots Association
It's in the procedures section, rather than load you up with—
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
Would you mind sending that as well? I'm curious as to how long they can be in the process of setting up, and how long, therefore, would incidents or events be referred to them if they're still in the process of setting up. That was a little quirky.
Finally, it's the other matter you raised, Mr. Holbrook: that according to one directive we're now inspecting pilots every year or two years, instead of the international standard of every six months. Correct?
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
I understand that if we're going to be at the top of the safety pile then perhaps we should have stricter standards, but that's another matter. The question is to you, Mr. Boucher. Would that be putting Canadian pilots at a disadvantage? The response from the department has been that we will respect standards elsewhere. If our pilots are only inspected yearly or every two years and the international standard is every six months, would that not restrict their capacity to fly abroad?
Senior Director, Flight Safety, Air Canada Pilots Association
I'm not exactly sure what that change will be as far as licensing efficiency requirements are, but I can tell you that SMS does bring in FOQA, flight operational quality assurance, and other programs that enhance the programs we're doing right now--LOSA, line operations safety audit.... The bottom line is we would be doing more safety-related programs to make sure we're doing a good job on the flight deck.
National Chair, Canadian Federal Pilots Association
I'm sure Air Canada can do those things, but not every airline in the country has those resources or that equipment on board their aircraft.
Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
Thank you.
I am trying to understand why we could not have an adequate inspection system in tandem with a safety management system.
Mr. Jenner, are the members of your association operators—those who lease helicopters for transport purposes—or are they manufacturers?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Helicopter Association of Canada
The members of our association are helicopter operators. They are the companies that operate the 2,000 helicopters in Canada.
Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
How many owners and how many corporations are members?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Helicopter Association of Canada
Of the 200 helicopter operators in Canada, 140 are members on a voluntary basis.
Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
Do you honestly believe that the 200 companies are capable of operating a safety management system without supervision?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Helicopter Association of Canada
First of all, it is not unsupervised. Yes, all of them, from the smallest to the largest, could have a safety management system. However, they are not left to their own devices, completely on their own. Transport Canada is shifting from the inspection of the roots to the inspection of the forest to ensure that it is healthy. Transport Canada must inspect the system to determine if it is operating properly. It must do so regularly and on the basis of risk management. In other words, it will inspect more frequently those companies that present risk factors and less frequently those that have none.
Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
But, in your words, the roots are no longer inspected, the forest is inspected.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Helicopter Association of Canada
The forest is inspected as long as—
Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
The forest will change colour. Your problem is that—
President and Chief Executive Officer, Helicopter Association of Canada
As long as it is healthy, there are certain measures in place. It may be somewhat figurative but when leaves die, when there are empty spaces in the forest, they will go and have a look at what is happening. And the more signs there are that the system is not working or is dysfunctional, the more they will look at the roots of the system.
Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
Except that in order to find the dead leaves, you have to have people on the ground.
I am astounded. That is why I am saying—
President and Chief Executive Officer, Helicopter Association of Canada
But they are all there. We take those we have right now, on the ground, plucking the weeds, and we put those people around the field to check the work of those individuals who are taking out the weeds.
